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Old 12.01.2009., 11:40   #2
ovako nabrzinu:

u talmudu se spominje isus kao i nekoliko njegovih učenika, da je bio čarobnjak i naučavao krivovjerje i da je zbog toga obješen:

Quote:
According to the Talmud, Yeshu was the son of a Jewish woman named Miriam who was betrothed to a carpenter. "Betrothed" means she was legally married to him, but she was not yet living with him or having sexual relations with him. The story says that Miriam was either raped by or voluntarily slept with Pandeira, a Greek or Roman soldier. Miriam than gave birth to Yeshu, who was considered a "mamzer" (bastard), a product of an adulterous relationship. The Talmud describes Yeshu as a heretic who dabbled in sorcery and lead the people astray. Later, the Sanhedrin (the Jewish "Supreme Court") ordered Yeshu stoned to death and his dead body was hung from a tree until nightfall after his death, in accordance with the ancient Jewish punishment for heretics.

While some believe there is no connection between the Talmudic Yeshu and the Christian Jesus, others believe there is a connection. The main inconsistency between the Talmudic and Christian story is that during the time that Jesus was killed, the Romans ruled and the Sanhedrin did not have the power to impose the death penalty. Thus, some Jews believe that today's popular Christian ideas about Jesus are based on a melding of the Talmudic story of Yeshu and the historian Josephus' writing about Jesus, which included his execution by the Romans.
neki ovo "pandeira" tumače kao židovsko iskrivljavanje grčke riječi "parthenos", što znači djevica... kažu da su kršćani isusa zvali sinom djevice i da su židovi to iskrivili u "ben pandeira", kao u sina nekog pandeire...

osim toga se na jednom drugom mjestu spominje kako je neki rabin odbio da ga izliječi jakov, brat isusov...


josip flavije ima odlomak o isusu...

neki u potpunosti odbacuju taj odlomak, dok drugi na osnovu jednog drugog izvora (arapski rukopis iz desetog stoljeća) govore da je originalni odlomak postojao, no da su kršćanski prepisavači kasnije dodali božanske atribute...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

ovo je odlomak iz arapskog rukopisa gdje nema božanskih atributa:

Quote:
At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders


iako su kao povijesni izvor evanđelja subjektivna, neke stvari se iz njih dadu iščitati, npr. da su autori itekako bili upoznati s prilikama u judeji i jeruzalemu, štoviše da su znali detalje... na primjer, u ivanovu evanđelju, najmlađem od svih se spominje kupalište od pet trijemova gdje je isus izliječio slijepca... to kupalište je otkriveno prije par godina, sa svim detaljima koji su navedeni u evanđelju:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in662781.shtml
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