Ahmadija - muslimanska zajednica u Hrvatskoj (pročitati uvodni post)

[Ahmadija]

Beljki kaže:

This actually means that unlike the philosopher the religious puts the critical mind away and accept whatever they are told in the name of whatever is presented as authority, with no actual reason whatsoever to believe it.

Now, if we discard the critical mind and are ready to believe anything why this and not that? What is more substantial in this claim than in the Scientology's one?

Talks about God, revelation etc are just words that anyone can utter. Sounds nice but has no foundation besides it's own poetical, social and religious appeal that is not actually related to the reality of the message.

As indicated earlier you belong to a class which likes to live in your own philosophical world. Ahamdiyya is not like Scientology. Here every thing is argued and only rational things are presented.

For you I would recommend to get a book written by 4th successor of Ahamdiyya, Mirza Tahir Ahamd (the late). Its title is revelation and rationality. In case you do not get let me know I can post you on address if you provide. Enjoying your arguments I can go further and can offer you to join once the annual gathering of Ahamdiyya either in Germany or UK. There you can find many with whom you can have such philosophical conversation and might be at the end you get satisfied. If you like even I can sponsor your travel and stay if you opt to go ahead. Germany is from 13-15 of June while UK is last weekend August. Choice and decision is yours.

[Ahmadija]

MukaaFFa.
Due to translation problem promised post could not be posted by weekend. Appologies for delay. The moment it is ready will be on line.

[MukaFFa]

Ahmadija kaže:

Dear first of all try to address the personalities with respect. It is the teachings of Islam.

OK i will continule as mr. Mirza
is that enogh raspectaby?

1. As intimated earlier Wahi, Ilham and Kashaf are states with which blessed ones are guided by God. As per belief of Ahamdiyya, its founder loved the Prophet Muhammad (saw) so much and excelled in piety to the extent that was blessed by God with Wahi, Ilham and Kashaf.(All three) Wahi is not special to law bearing prophets. See Sura ALNAHAL of Quran where honey been has been blessed with Wahi.

I don't have an intention to discuss does mr. mirza loved Resulullah or not.
there is difference betveen Verb WHY and noun WHY
Also there is big difference of getting Wahy and be under Wahy-order.
bul let's say the answer you gave is good enough

Read Sura Alqasus where mother of prophet Moses (AS)was blessed with Wahi. So if founder of Ahamdiyya is blessed with Wahi what is the surprise?

try to put a quote of those ayats.
Yes it was a suprise!

2. It depends if it is for joy then clearly NO, as it is forbidden in Quran. However for medicines or if prescribed by doctor as medicine in acute sickness, rarely one can take it as medicine only.

can ahmedis drink whiskey in puspose for a making bussiness agreeements?

3. Lack of understanding to metaphorical situation is making you un easy. Here no one means blood relation ship but in piety and resemblance of circumstance and similar situation is meant. According to belief of Ahamdiyya ISA (AS) was a great prophet of his time. He survived fructification. Healed up and migrated towards Afghanistan and Kashmir in search of lost tribes of Bani Israel. He completed his mission and died natural death at the age of 120 years and is buried in Srinagar Kashmir. For details you can read book Jesus in India translated in your language and available on web site www.alislam.hr.
So Ahmadiyya does not believe any one coming from heaven. relation ship is only metaphorical and relates to spiritual state.

you are avoiding the answer.
Isa a.s. was blod related to our Father Ibrahim a.s. Muhammed a.s. too. But Mr. Mirza wasn't. in that aspect of wiev he is insiginficant. Because he is not related with Isa a.s. or with Muhammad a.s.. He is not even a banu Israil. Why would God give such a gift to him? i Don't see a reason

4. In Quran it is mentioned it is the fear of God (Taqwa which makes any one respectful in the eyes of God) Ask God why he selected Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) to be promised Messiah and Mahdi.

For better understanding term taqwa you sholud to know arabic like i do!
GOd didn't selected mr. Mirza to be that. Simpliy as bean, Isa and Mahdi are two persons not two. First is son of Mary the one who is Zaqijj
Second is blod related to Muhammad a.s. ehli bayt

Even you can ask why God chose prophet Muhammad (saw) as prophet while he was UMMI (uneducated) An objection which was raised by Abu Jehl who used to call himself as Abul Hakam.

Firstly, Muhammad a.s. is ancestor od Ibrahim a.s., As you probbably notices Allah to Resuls give a "nikcnames" Ibrahim is HalilAllah, Isa is Kelamullah and Ruhullah, Muhammad is HabibAllah salavat ans selam be upon them.
i notice that mr. Mirza don't have a nick.

The names which you are taking were great scholars of their time and all are respected by Ahmaiyya however were not of the status what Mirza Ghulam Ahamd achieved in the eyes of God due to pure love God and his Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

you can't prove that!
still I think that te peoples I have named are greater than mr. Mirza

5. Ahmadiyya is other name for revival of true Islam and by the grace of Almighty it has already translated Holy Quran in 74 languages.

I know you are slightly dissatissfied with translations of muslims.

Why and what for it should translate Bible?

why not. there is a chance that chistinas didn't translate it correctly.

The main reason why ahmedis don't translate a Bible is because christinas are not a "target population" for Ahmedis

Christians are already doing it in various languages. Christians or other religions never translated Quran in any language why Ahamdiyya should do it. I could not understand your logic.

not true! that non-muslims did not translate Qur'an before Ahmadis.

next question. Why mr. Mirza choose title "the prophet of Islam" instead to be the ResulAllah.
dont tell me that is the same.

My general conclusion is that you don't konw the answers on my question or you smartly avoid them.
There is no foundation in Qur'an that two persons can be in one.
Wahy, by the geeneraly opinion of Ulema based on Quran and haidth is not a state hal. Wahy is stictly connected to relevations such as Tevrat, Zebbur Injeel and Qur'an. does ahmadis have a Book beside Qur'an? is that book equal with Quran?
However ,to be under wahy means that Allah's amrs realize through you, then that person become ulul ilm the possesor of knowledge. that pesron is truly in haqiqatil Muhammadiyya and Allah give to him hals of ilham Kashf, Jezbah,...
for more information read Risale-i Kusheryri.

Status of mr. Mirza is not confirmed by the any parts of muslim. Scholars based on sharia rejected that claim. Scholars related to tasawwuf aslo rejected Mirza's claims.

Im not using names Gulam Ahmed not to insult you but i'm not usin that names because those names are isharat to Isa and Mahdy and i don't belive im mirza's claims

Faoundations od Ahamdiyya movement are not solid for many reasons.
look at the time. Muslims in India was stiking force against british .
Mr. Mirza was not fully dressed with Kur'an and sunnet of the Muhammad a.s.
he didn't even memorise Qur'an
he dye in age of 73 that's not related to Muhammad
He started to in age od 47 or older... why not 33 or 40?

he never be in Mecca or Jerusalim!?

za one koji ne znaju engleski:

Ahmedija ja svašta i ništa napisao:
prvo ahemdija je pokušao ustvriditi da je wahy stanje odnosno hal obrazlažući to ajetima iz sure pčela 68. ajet i Sire Kazivanje 7 ajet, ali je previdio da se radi o glagolu ne o stanju na šta sam mu ja ukazao. na krjau je ustvrdio zašto bi bilo iznenađenje da pored bezumne pčele i majke koja je nosila Mojsija i gosp. Mirza ne bi mogao biti nosilac Wahja.
ja sam ustvrdio da bi bilo iznanđenje jer oni i nisu bili nosioci Wahya iako su djelovale po Wahy.

zatim je pričao nešto kako je Isus ganjao židovksa plemena po indiji i tamo umro u starosti od 120 godina... ja sam ustvrdio da izbjegava odgovor na moja pitanja. rekao sam mu još to da je za poslansvo potreba krbna povezanosz sa Ibrahimom jer da toga nema svaka suša bi mogla tvrdit da je poslanik kao što ovaj tvdi. iako je zbog toga što nije krvno vezan ni za Isusa ni za Muhammeda on potpuno beznačajan da bi bio neko ko bi mogao primiti navodno poslanstvo.

onda se pozvao na Taqwa a ja sam mu rekoa da ne razumije dovoljno taj pojam i opet sam mu rekao da je jasno kao pasulj iliti grah. Isa i Mehdi su dvije osobe. Jedna je od roda Davidova a druga je od Roda Muhamedova, i izmežu ostalog i zbog toga ne mogu biti dvije osobe. onda je nešto natuknuo u smislu kad može Muhammed što ne bi i on na šta sam mu ja odgovorio da je on ipak od loze poslanika
onda je opet nešto prišao kako je iz svoje ljubavi i slično prema Bogu to zaslužio na šta sam mu ja odgovorio da u to ne vjerujem jer su osobe koje sam neveo ipak veće i značajnije od njega...
nam oje pitanje zašto Ahemdije ne prevode Bibliju on reče da Kršćani to rade sasvim dobro a ja mu rekoh a ahmedije to ne rade jer Kršćani nisu njihova ciljana grupa nego samo muslimani.
rekao je još da nemuslimani ne prevode Kur'an što je nonsens...

još sam ga upitao zašto je g-din Mriza izabrao da bude prorok islama umjesto da bude božiji poslanik?


moj generlani zaključaj je da ti ili ne znaš odgovore ili ih murdo izbjegavaš


nema osnove za tvrdnju da dvije osobe mogu biti dvije
Wahy prema generlanom stavu uleme bazirane na Kur'anu i hadisu nije stanje/hal. On je striktno vezan za BOžije knjige Tevrat Zebur, Indžil i Kur'an
Imaju li Ahemdije Knjigu pored Kur'ana? da li je ta knjiga ravna Kur'anu?
Bilo kako bilo biti pod wahjem tnač se Allahov emr ili volja realizuje preko tebe, i tada ta osoba postaje uulul ilm tj posjednik znanja. ta je osoba istinski u Muhamedanskoj zbilji i tada mu Allah daje halove Ilhama, kešfova, džezbi. VIše o tome u Knjizi Risala Kušejrija


Status gdin Mirze nije potvrđen ni od koga. niti je to učinjeno od strane uleme koja svoje stavove bazira na Šerijatu niti od stane tesavufske uleme.

NE koristim native Gulam Ahmed jer oni aludiraju na vezu a ISusom i Muhammedom a ja u tu vezu ne vjerujem


Temelji ahmedijskog pokreta nisu čvrsti iz mnogo razloga.


gospodim Mirza kao samoproklamovani poslanik islama se nije okitio Kur'anom niti sunnetom Muhammeda
umro je sa 73 goein i to nije povezano sa Muhammedom a.s.

počeo je svoju misiju u 47. a ne u 40. kao poslanik a.s. ili makar nakon 33. kao recimo logični nastavak misije Isa a.s.

nije nikad bio u Mekki i Jarusalimu.

to je i politička dimenzija ovog pokreta jer su oni nastali u turbulentno vrijeme borbe indijaca za nezavisnost. Muslimani us bili jedna od udarnih snaga i tadašnja ulema je pozivala na oružanu borbu protiv bitanaca. a onda se pojavi dotični gospodin i kaže da se sa britancima bore olovkama

[MukaFFa]

Ahmadija kaže:

MukaaFFa.
Due to translation problem promised post could not be posted by weekend. Appologies for delay. The moment it is ready will be on line.

i'm translating your posts on some way... paraphrase them.

If Meadow sugest to to be more accurate i will do that, but i'm not going to translate your whole post because it is oftenla coloured with misionary states which can't be proven.

Maybe you will be more motivated when if you write if for free...
Kullun ammene billahi ve aleyhi tewwekelna

[MukaFFa]

izvinjavam se na predugom postu...
još malo pa gotovo!

[Ahmadija]

For MUKaaFFa

try to put a quote of those ayats.

Sura Alnahal ayat 69 if you include bissmillah as 1.

Sura Alaqasas ayat 8 if you include bismillah as 1

[Ahmadija]

Od početka je naglašeno da Amhadija ima poštovanja prema svakoj religiji I njezinim osnivačima. Smatramo da su svi osnivači religija poslani od Boga uzimajući u obzir zahtjeve određenog povijesnog razdoblja. Svaki poslanik od Boga je napravio svoju zadaću na ovom svijetu te se vratio svojem stvoritelju. Ahmadija se nikad nije uključila u dijela koja bi prouzročila štetu ili uvrijedila sljedbenike drugih religija. Zato u prvi plan stavlja uspostavu međureligijskog dijaloga diljem cijelog svijeta. Jednako tako ulaže mnogo truda za širenje mira u svijetu. Njezin trenutni poglavar je držao govore u Capitoll Hillu, britanskom I europskom Parlamentu o načinima postizanja svijetskog mira. Prije 3 tjedna bio je glavni govornik na vjerskoj konferenciji u Londonu gdje su se skupili članovi svih religija kako bi istražili načine I put miru. Kraljica i premijer su posebno poslali poruke na konferenciju.

Ahmadija također vjeruje da svako ljudsko biće ima pravo ispovijedati bilo koje vjerovanje ili religiju I postupati po njoj slobodno. Ahmadija vjeruje u živućeg Boga. Kao stvoritelj svemira, ako se brine za sve fizičke potrebe čovječanstva na isti način se Svemogući Bog brine za duhovne potrebe čovječanstva. Prema tome Svemogući Bog je slao razne poslanike čovječanstvu kako bi se brinuo za njegove duhovne potrebe. Prema Ahmadiji budući da je Bog danas jednak kao u prošlosti te ima iste osobine u današnje vrijeme On je također poslao Obećanog Mesiju i Mahdija da se brine za duhovne potrebe čovječanstva. Dolazak Mesije i Mahdija je prorečen u velikim knjigama svih religija.

Osnivač Ahmadije ima za ispunjenje dva cilja. Prvi je da se privuče pozornost čovječanstva prema Bogu kako bi se uspostavila živuća veza a drugi je savjetovati ljudska bića da postanu brižna i ljubazna jedni prema drugima. Djelovanje prema te dvije ideologije može rješiti sve probleme s kojima se svijet susreće danas.

Činjenica je da od 1889. Nitko nije tvrdio da je Mesija I Mahdi. Neke glasine su se pojavile u SAD-u (Dr. Alexander Dowi) I u Saudijskoj Arabiji ali su brzo nestale I nitko ne zna za njih. Osnivač Ahamdije je svoje tvrdnje izjavio u malom selu u Indiji. U isto vrijeme je prorekao da mu je Bog rekao ‘’Učinit ću da tvoja poruka dođe u sve dijelove svijeta.’’ Nakon njegove tužne smrti 1908, u skladu s učenjem Kur’ana, sustav halifata temeljen na poslanstvu došao je na snagu te se sa blagoslovom Svemogućeg Boga nastavlja I dalje. Danas 204 znaju za ove tvrdnje na ovaj ili onaj način. Tijekom zadnjih 124 godine mnoge moćne zemlje I vlade trudile su se u suzbijanju glasa ove zajednice ali svakog dana ona je sve uspješnija. Što ovo govori? Jednsotavno da neka skrivena sila pomaže zajednici I to je Svemogući Bog koji je prorekao osnivaču AHmadije da će njegova poruka stići u sve dijelove svijeta.

Ahmadija nema političke ambicije. Ona je samo pokret reforme kako bi se podigla duhovna razina čovječanstva I omogućilo svakom članu da ima živuću vezu sa Bogom I da postane dobra osoba. To je srž poruke koju Ahmadija poručuje kroz cijeli svijet. Ahmadija također vjeruje da je promjena srca bilokoje osobe sa Svemogućim Bogom I ni jedna druga sila to ne može učiniti. Poslanici dolaze u svijet kako bi širili poruku koju im je dao Bog. To radi Ahmadija. Budući da je normalna tradicija u vjerskoj povijesti da je svaki poslanik Boga odbijan tako je I sa Ahmadijom. Njezini protivnici nameću mnoge optužbe na zajednicu I njezinog osnivača. Odgovori na sve te optužbe već su dani u brojnim knjigama os trane zajednice koje su lako dostupne na internet na mnogim jezicima. Čak I na web stranici www.alislam.hr dani su linkovi za Bosansku, Englesku I Njemačku stranicu.


Original engleski:
From the very out set it is cleared that Ahmadija has lot of respect for each religion and their founders. It believes all religious founders were sent by God keeping in view the requirement of the particular time and era. Each messenger of God came, performed the assigned responsibilities and returned to creator. Ahamdija never indulges in any act or deed which causes injury or offend the follower of other religions. It is in fore front to start the inter religion dialogues all over the world. Similarly it is working extremely hard for the spread of peace all over the globe. Its current head spoke in Capitol Hill, UK parliament and in Europa parliament about ways and means to achieve peace in the world. Just 3 weeks ago he was key note speaker at world religions conference in London where members of all religions gathered to examine the ways and means to ensure peace all over. Her majesty Queen and Prome Minister of UK specially sent the message for the conference.

Ahanmdija also believes that each human being has a right to confess any belief and religion and act upon it with full freedom. Ahmadija believes on a living God. As creator of the universe if He caters for all the physical needs of mankind same way Almighty God caters for the spiritual needs of mankind. Accordingly Almighty God had been sending various messengers to mankind to take care of the spiritual needs. According to Ahamdija since God is same as was in the past and exercises all its attributes in these days as such for current era He also sent Promised Messiah and Mahdi to cater for the spiritual needs of mankind. Coming of Messiah and Mahdi has been prophesied in major revealed books of all the religions.

The founder of Ahamdija has two aims to fulfil. First to draw the attention of mankind towards God to establish living relationship and secondly to advise the human being to become caring and gentle to each other. Acting upon these two ideaologies can resolve all the problems world is facing these days.

Today if mankind pays a serious thought to the fact that since 1889 none claimed to be the Messiah and Mahdi. One voice was raised in USA Dr Alexander Dowi and then one in Saudi Arabia but both vanished and no one knows about them. The founder of Ahamdija made claim in 1889 in a small village of India. Same time he prophesied that God told him "I shall cause thy message reach to the corners of the world". After his sad demise in 1908, according to the teachings of Holy Quran, system of Khilafat based on prophet hood came in to force which by the blessings of Almighty successfully continuing. Today 204 countries of the world know this claimant by one way or the other. During last 124 years many powerful countries and governments made efforts to suppress this voice and community but each day it prospered with more success. What speaks all this? Simply that some hidden power is helping the community and it is none but the Almighty God who foretold to the founder of Ahmadija that I shall cause thy message to reach to the corners of the world.
Ahmaija has no political ambitions. It is reform movement just to raise and groom the mankind in spiritual field enabling each member to have living relation ship with God and to become a good human being. This is the crux of the message which Ahmadija is pleading through out the world. Ahmadija also believes, changing the heart of any human being is with Almighty God and no other power can do it. Messengers come to world to pass on the message given to them by God. This is what Ahmadija is doing. Since it is normal tradition in religious history that each messenger of God is rejected so is the case with Ahmadija. Its opponents levy many allegations to Ahmadija and its founder. Replies to all such allegations have already been given in the books of the community which are easily available on internet in many popular languages. Even on the website of www.alislam.hr, links for the Bosnian, English and German has been provided.

[MukaFFa]

Ahmadija kaže:

For MUKaaFFa

try to put a quote of those ayats.

here:
Sahih International
An Nahl
And your Lord inspired(ewhaa- verb) to the bee, "Take for yourself among the mountains, houses, and among the trees and [in] that which they construct.
Bosnian
Gospodar tvoj je pčelu nadahnuo(ewhaa-verb): "Pravi sebi kuće u brdima i u dubovima i u onome što naprave ljudi,
al Qasas
Sahih International
And We inspired(evhayna- verb) to the mother of Moses, "Suckle him; but when you fear for him, cast him into the river and do not fear and do not grieve. Indeed, We will return him to you and will make him [one] of the messengers."
Bosnian

I Mi nadahnusmo Musaovu majku: "Doji ga, a kad se uplašiš za njegov život, baci ga u rijeku, i ne strahuj i ne tuguj, Mi ćemo ti ga, doista, vratiti i poslanikom ga učiniti."

there is also suretul Zilzal. "bi enne rabbeke evhaaleha"

Sura Alnahal ayat 69 if you include bissmillah as 1.

Sura Alaqasas ayat 8 if you include bismillah as 1

bissmi Llah means Allah's smile

you probably think b-ismi-llah: bi ismi Allah

at the end
53:4 in huwe wahyun yuuhaa

Sahih International
It is not but a revelation revealed,
Bosnian
to je samo Objava koja mu se obznanjuje,

Wahyun(root WHY) noun, juuhaa /root WHY/ verb
do yuu see distinctive difference in a sensual ussage of words.
Allah evhaa Wahy only to resulullahs(Musa, Davud, Isa, Muhammad )
but He evhaa his amr/orders to all his creatures( people, bees, earth)
do you see an important difference?

[MukaFFa]

Ahmadija kaže:

cut

708 words
Messiah 3 times
Mahdi 3 times
Ahmadija founder 3-4 times

Muhammed a.s. none

[Meadow]

MukaFFa kaže:

i'm translating your posts on some way... paraphrase them.

If Meadow sugest to to be more accurate i will do that, but i'm not going to translate your whole post because it is oftenla coloured with misionary states which can't be proven.

Maybe you will be more motivated when if you write if for free...
Kullun ammene billahi ve aleyhi tewwekelna

Paraphrasing is OK, as long as it's contextually the same.
Like I've already said, you don't have to translate, the topic can continue only in English, but if you wish to do so, it'll be helpful.

[Palenholik]

Ahmadija kaže:

/CUT/
Ahmadija muslimanska zajednica je vodeća islamska organizacija koja kategorički odbacuje terorizam u bilo kojem obliku. Prije više od jednog stoljeća, Ahmad (aleh-salam) je jednoglasno izjavio da agresivnom “džihadu od mača” nema mjesta u Islamu. Umjesto toga, on je učio svoje sljedbenike da se uhvate beskrvne, intelektualne ” džihad olovke ” u obrani Islama.

Why aren't ahmadiyya proclaiming universal peace and no war, instead of message against "aggressive jihad". Wouldn't your message reach out to broader public? Wouldn't you avoid siding with one group against the other one?

How would you name it when at times of waging wars, one group screams "stop aggressive jihad", and not "stop making war"? And you know that jihad is Islamic term... by calling to stop "aggressive jihad", you are calling one side (involved in the conflict) to stop fighting. Isn't that, in your opinion, taking side with the party that would like to see no resistance on it's colonial way?

All... put your guns on the table!

[MukaFFa]

vidim oko ti igra

ma vjerovatno se provaljujem na neviđeno sa svojim engleksim, ali eto šta je tu je...

[Ahmadija]

Palenholik kaže:

Why aren't ahmadiyya proclaiming universal peace and no war, instead of message against "aggressive jihad". Wouldn't your message reach out to broader public? Wouldn't you avoid siding with one group against the other one?

How would you name it when at times of waging wars, one group screams "stop aggressive jihad", and not "stop making war"? And you know that jihad is Islamic term... by calling to stop "aggressive jihad", you are calling one side (involved in the conflict) to stop fighting. Isn't that, in your opinion, taking side with the party that would like to see no resistance on it's colonial way?

All... put your guns on the table!

One has to understand the scenario and circumstance in which statement is made. Jihad is an Islamic terminology. Unfortunately main stream Muslims understood it some thing do with sword. Founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community clarified it that time of Jihad with sword is over. Now if Islam has to prosper it will be Jihad with pen writing love and peace for whole mankind.

You are right the statement stop making war is broader term and Ahamdiyya advocates it too. Few months ago when Syrian conflict turned to cause big unrest in whole of the world, current supreme head of Ahamdiyya Community wrote letters to US President Obama, Russian president Putin as well to many other notable political leaders of the world not to indulge in wars rather strive for peace. Even in his last Friday sermon on 08.03.2014 (every Friday it gets telecast live on Muslim television Ahamdiyya all over the world at 14.00 hours Croatian time) he warned the world big political leaders that current circumstance in Ukraine can lead to catastrophe in whole world. Being a religious leader he can only draw the attention of world about the danger lying if war breaks out. So he is doing it regularly.

In nutshell Ahamdiyya is not for wars, advocates peace all over with its slogan love for all hatred for none. You will never find Ahmadiyya siding with
any group or country. It sides only with just cause and always advocates peace on this planet.

[dr mladjo]

One article about ahmadija

[MukaFFa]

Ahmadija kaže:

One has to understand the scenario and circumstance in which statement is made. Jihad is an Islamic terminology. Unfortunately main stream Muslims understood it some thing do with sword. Founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community clarified it that time of Jihad with sword is over. Now if Islam has to prosper it will be Jihad with pen writing love and peace for whole mankind.

...and WWI started
Ovjde nas Ahmedija uči da treba da razumijemo okolnosti izjeve u vezi džihada olovkom. Zatim nas (pogrešno) obavještava da je džihad islamski termin a zapravo je arapski.
još nam reče da muslimani džihad razumiju kao "neka stvar koja se radi sa mačem"

možda ovo:
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...rd_cutting.jpg

You are right the statement stop making war is broader term and Ahamdiyya advocates it too. Few months ago when Syrian conflict turned to cause big unrest in whole of the world, current supreme head of Ahamdiyya Community wrote letters to US President Obama, Russian president Putin as well to many other notable political leaders of the world not to indulge in wars rather strive for peace. Even in his last Friday sermon on 08.03.2014 (every Friday it gets telecast live on Muslim television Ahamdiyya all over the world at 14.00 hours Croatian time) he warned the world big political leaders that current circumstance in Ukraine can lead to catastrophe in whole world. Being a religious leader he can only draw the attention of world about the danger lying if war breaks out. So he is doing it regularly.

dalje Govori kako su vodstvo ahmedija upućivalo apele svjetskim liderima na svojoj televiziji( a koja je jedna od najnegledanijih u svijetu) u vezi stirijskog konfikta i problema u Ukrajni, ali avaj....

In nutshell Ahamdiyya is not for wars, advocates peace all over with its slogan love for all hatred for none. You will never find Ahmadiyya siding with
any group or country. It sides only with just cause and always advocates peace on this planet.

osnova Ahmedijksa je da oni nusu za rat, zagovaraju mir sa svojim elegantnim sloganom ljubav svakome mržnja nikome. Vi nikad nećeta vidjeti ahmediju na strani neke grupe ili zamlje. Oni su na strani samo pravednog cilja i uvijek zagovaraju mir na planeti.

question.
Jesus is on the just cause! he tell us about Harmageddon conflict. He fights for the right cause? your comment?

Bosnian president Alija Izetbegović 1992. said that for conflict is needed two, and in spike of that the one side started the war.

unfortunately for war is only one bully enough!

[Palenholik]

Ahmadija kaže:

One has to understand the scenario and circumstance in which statement is made.
/CUT/

Please, shed some light on the events and historical context in which statement is made.

Ahmadija kaže:

Jihad is an Islamic terminology. Unfortunately main stream Muslims understood it some thing do with sword. Founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community clarified it that time of Jihad with sword is over. Now if Islam has to prosper it will be Jihad with pen writing love and peace for whole mankind.
/CUT/

Yes, Jihad is Arabic word and Islamic term, how is it possible to end jihad with sword? Do we have examples of the communities, countries that are founded and existing on "no war" principles? Not religious, and other groups... countries... that would be real example.

Would you agree with me that the only reason we are enjoying today's peace is "fearocracy"... fear of the human race's extinction if super powers engaged in to the nuclear wars. So in reality it is fear based peace - what an absurdity, hah?

Ahmadija kaže:

In nutshell Ahamdiyya is not for wars, advocates peace all over with its slogan love for all hatred for none. You will never find Ahmadiyya siding with
any group or country. It sides only with just cause and always advocates peace on this planet.

But, if one of your religious tenements teaches "no (sword) jihad", and we agreed that jihad is and Islamic term, and Muslims are for almost 200 years under constant (territorial/economical/political) "siege", isn't it actually call for surrender? And call directed to just one side - since others know no "jihad", maybe "survival of the fittest" but not jihad.

I mean, don't you agree that you should teach morality tenements to those groups/sides that miss it the most, since they are violating it. Are now-days Muslims (and those at the time of Ahmadiyya establishment) in real need for "pen" (only) jihad?

[Ahmadija]

Palenholik kaže:

Please, shed some light on the events and historical context in which statement is made.

It was almost last three decades of 19 century. Islam was in deplorable state as no one had the competence to defend it against the allegations made by its opponents. Appeared Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) and he wrote about 80 books. restored the dignity of Quran and its Holy Prophet of Islam (saw). The opponents ran away and Islam as well prophet Muhammad (saw) started gaining its lost dignity. These were the events and historical context.

Yes, Jihad is Arabic word and Islamic term, how is it possible to end jihad with sword? Do we have examples of the communities, countries that are founded and existing on "no war" principles? Not religious, and other groups... countries... that would be real example.

Until now no country only religious group like Ahmadiyya. However when Ahamdiyya will have effective majority and government in some country only then example can be given.

Would you agree with me that the only reason we are enjoying today's peace is "fearocracy"... fear of the human race's extinction if super powers engaged in to the nuclear wars. So in reality it is fear based peace - what an absurdity, hah?

In worldly approach to large extent you are right. Fear is greater phenomenon to ensure peace. However a step ahead of fear is love. Some worship creator due to fear of hell in life to come. Those who attain highest status in love of God worship Almighty merely out of love. This what founder of Ahamdiyya advocated people should develop love of God and for its creature.


But, if one of your religious tenements teaches "no (sword) jihad", and we agreed that jihad is and Islamic term, and Muslims are for almost 200 years under constant (territorial/economical/political) "siege", isn't it actually call for surrender? And call directed to just one side - since others know no "jihad", maybe "survival of the fittest" but not jihad.

Again depends how one perceives the law of nature. Muslims or non Muslims all are creature of God. Almighty has given sunshine, air and many other things not on religious basis rather for whole mankind. In case some power is constantly exercising injustices to mankind the law of nature comes in to action and unjust are punished automatically. History is full of such incidents. Study of last 200 years of Muslim history indicates more faults of Muslims so the likelihood Muslim Uma is under siege due to its own fault.

I mean, don't you agree that you should teach morality tenements to those groups/sides that miss it the most, since they are violating it. Are now-days Muslims (and those at the time of Ahmadiyya establishment) in real need for "pen" (only) jihad?

You are 200% right. Morality needs urgent attention. Founder of Ahamdiyya and its successors have always stressed on high standard of morality. Last year was a peace conference in UK where spiritual head of Ahamdiyya spoke on it. At the end one great British Parliamentarian thanked to Mirza Masroor (be Allah his supporter) and said you always give good advises. Mirza Masroor (be Allah his supporter) the 5th Khlalifa of Ahamdiyya Community smiled and said but you only listen and do not act on those advises.

I enjoyed your comments and hope shall remain in touch.

[MukaFFa]

did mr. Mirza ever be in Mecca Medina and Jesusalem?

[MukaFFa]

For me activities of ahmadiyya movement are not problem, and their efforts are probably encomiastic. I'm not well knowed with their activities but i'm familiar about surrounding prejudice about them.

I will repeat facts about the founder ahmadiyya movement for wich he can't be Isa a.s. od Imam Mehdi or both by any chance

1. he never take pilgrimage to Mecca
2. never visited medina and Jerusalim
3. establish khalifat beside khalifat(ottoman khalifat
4. not recognised by the ulema in Mecca (as is predicted) as Mahdi
5. any kind of meeting Isa and Mahdi didn't happen near Damascus
6. Founder of ahmadiyya movement never been in Damascus.
7. missed more than three friday prays in a row (Jumu'a salat and Hutbah)
8. not related to Muhammad s.a.v.s. he is not sa sayyid or sharif.
9. not related to house of David

Translation:
Za mene aktivnosti ahmedija nisu problem i njihove aktivnosti su vjerovatno pohvalne. JA nisam dobro upoznat sa njihovim aktivnostima ali jesam uopznat sa predrasudama u vezi njih.
Ponovit ću činjenice radi kojih nema čanse da je on Isa ili imama Mehdi ili oboje.

1. nije nikada obavio Hadždž koji je propis
2. nikada nije bio u Medini i Jerusalimu
3. uspostavio je hilafet pored halife (osmanlije)
4. nije prepoznat od strane određene uleme u Meki kao što je predviđeno
5. susret na bilo kakav način Isa i Mehdija se nije dogodio kako je najavljeno kod Damaska nego u nekom indijskom selu
6. Osnivač Ahmedija nikad nije bio u Damasku
7. propustio je više od tri džume(obavezna moliva petkom za muslimane) zaredom
8. nije u rodu sa Muhammedom- pa ne može biti Mehdi
9. nije od roda Davidova- pa ne može biti Isa

your comment?

[Ahmadija]

1. he never take pilgrimage to Mecca
2. never visited medina and Jerusalim
3. establish khalifat beside khalifat(ottoman khalifat
4. not recognised by the ulema in Mecca (as is predicted) as Mahdi
5. any kind of meeting Isa and Mahdi didn't happen near Damascus
6. Founder of ahmadiyya movement never been in Damascus.
7. missed more than three friday prays in a row (Jumu'a salat and Hutbah)
8. not related to Muhammad s.a.v.s. he is not sa sayyid or sharif.
9. not related to house of David.

1. Even the prophet of Islam Muhammad (saw) was forbidden to visit Mecca. Circumstances did not allow him in spite of his extreme love for the Prophet of Islam. However his successors did visit Mecca and performed Haj.
2. Same reply as for point 1.
3. Ahmadija Khilafat is based according to teachings of Quran. Except for Khilafate Rashdia all were either rulers or kings on the name of Islam. It got politicised and not remained spiritual. So no parallel should be drawn with Ahmadija Khilafat with Ottoman or other Khilafat.
4. No group of Ulema is authorised to declare some one as Promised Messiah or Imam Mahdi. It is only God who has to decide. So no recognition is required.
5 and 6. What for to Damascus? And why to have a meeting not understood.
7. Quote authentic reference.
8. Why to have such bodily relationship. In religious world spiritual relationship gets priority.
9. Why should have relation ship.

Please try to have some concrete observations.

1 Čak Poslanik islama Muhammed (SAW) je zabranjeno da posjeti Meku. Okolnosti nisu ga i na spavanje svoje ekstremne ljubavi prema Poslaniku islama Dopustite. No njegovi nasljednici nisu posjetiti Meku i izvodi haj.
2 Sve što je odgovor na točku 1.
3 Ahmadija halifat temelji prema učenju Kur'ana. Osim Khilafate Rashdia svi bili ili vladari ili kraljevi na ime islama. On je dobio politizira i ne ostao duhovni. Nemam paralelno treba povući s Ahmadija halifata s osmanskom ili druge halifata.
4 No skupina uleme ovlašten proglasiti nekoga kao što je obećao Mesija ili Imam Mahdi. To je samo Bog koji mora odlučiti. Nemam priznanje je potrebno.
5 i 6 Što za Damask? I to je razlog zašto se sastanak ne razumije.
7 Citat autentične reference.
8 Zašto imati takve tjelesne odnos. I religiozni svijet duhovni odnos dobiva prioritet.
9 Zašto bi trebao imati odnos s broda.

Pokušajte imati neke konkretne primjedbe.