Bijela Hrvatska, Velika Hrvatska isl.

[Genneral]

Postoje li na ovom forumu administratori? Hoće li netko konačno sankcionirati ovog Velikog Despota ( Petrovaradina )?

Što na Forumu nije dozvoljeno?
kršenje zakona RH
kršenje opće prihvaćenih civilizacijskih normi
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provociranje svađa i uvreda
psovanje
kršenje zaštite autorskih prava
objava pornografskih, erotskih sadržaja, kao i prikrivene golotinje, te linkanje na takav sadržaj (Google policy)
reklamiranje (koje nije odobreno od strane Marketinga Foruma)
chat (izvan chat topica)
lažno predstavljanje
otkrivanje osobnih podataka drugih korisnika
biti offtopic
proganjanje drugih korisnika
VIKANJE (CAPS LOCK)
praviti se glupim

Koliko ja vidim, dotični ili nije pročitao pravila ponašanja ili ih svjesno krši, a ovi što su administratori ili ne rade svoj posao jer ni sami ne znaju pravila ili ne žele poduzeti sankcije protiv ovakvih Despota ( Petrovaradina ) iz nekih nama "neznanih" razloga.

[forumas ja]

Old Norwegian - Viking travel writers Sigurd, Ohtere, and Wulfstan from the 8th century mention the Kingdom of Krowataland on the territory of today's Ukraine. It has been investigated by a Czech historian and writer Karel Krocha.

The Byzantine Emperor Heraclius (610-641) asked the Croats from White Croatia for help in protecting his Empire from the penetration of the Avars. As written by Byzantine Emperor Constantin Porphyrogenetus from the middle of the 10th century, a part of the White Croats, led by


two sisters Buga and Tuga,
and five brothers Kluk, Lobel, Muhlo, Kosjenc, Horvat,
moved to the territories of present-day Croatia. This happened in the 7th century. There they came in touch with the Romans and romanized descendants of Illyrians, Celts and others.

Soon after their arrival in the 7th century Croatians were baptised and so accepted Christianity. The Croats were the first among the Slavs who converted to Christianity.

According to Byzantine ruler Constantin Porphyrogenetus, the Croats made an agreement with the Pope Agaton as early as in 679, in which they obliged themselves not to undertake any offensive wars against neighbouring Christian states. This was the first international diplomatic agreement of the Croats with the Holy See. The importance of this event has been pointed out by the Pope John Paul II in his speech held in the Croatian language during his apostolic visit to Croatia in Zagreb in September 1994. The Pope also stressed the importance of more than 13 centuries of Christianity among the Croats.

[Veliki Despot]

Genneral kaže:

Postoje li na ovom forumu administratori? Hoće li netko konačno sankcionirati ovog Velikog Despota ( Petrovaradina )?

Koliko ja vidim, dotični ili nije pročitao pravila ponašanja ili ih svjesno krši, a ovi što su administratori ili ne rade svoj posao jer ni sami ne znaju pravila ili ne žele poduzeti sankcije protiv ovakvih Despota ( Petrovaradina ) iz nekih nama "neznanih" razloga.

Najbitnije je da ti ovde pises sa 3,4 razlicita naloga providan si, inace nisam znao da je krsenje pravila pisanje istine,krsenje pravila je vredjanje koje radis ti i tebi slicni,ponizavanjem na nacionalnoj osnovi i konstantno nazivanje Srba robovima,to je krsenje pravila, trolanje,vredjanje na nacionalnoj osnovi i fasizam

[Dilberth]

pjedvaj kaže:

Kad već vadi mast iz svake naoko slične riječi imamo i hrvatsku/slovensku verziju istočnoeuropskog pozdrava "servus/serbus", što znači "vaš sam sluga/na usluzi".

Nemoj da te cuje Veliki Despot. On ce odmah reci da je to ustvari pošokačena verzija od, "đe si Srbine!"

[Dilberth]

pjedvaj kaže:

Kad već vadi mast iz svake naoko slične riječi imamo i hrvatsku/slovensku verziju istočnoeuropskog pozdrava "servus/serbus", što znači "vaš sam sluga/na usluzi".

Ili bi mozda trebali taj pozdrav modernizirati za danasnja vremena. Latinski se vise ne rabi cak niti u crkvi, i zato bi mozda bilo pravilnije da se pozdravljamo sa "srbin ponizan", ili tako nekako.

[Veliki Despot]

Dilberth kaže:

Ili bi mozda trebali taj pozdrav modernizirati za danasnja vremena. Latinski se vise ne rabi cak niti u crkvi, i zato bi mozda bilo pravilnije da se pozdravljamo sa "srbin ponizan", ili tako nekako.

duhovit si nema sta sredjoeuropska-tisucljetna "kultura"

[Genneral]

Veliki Despot kaže:

Najbitnije je da ti ovde pises sa 3,4 razlicita naloga providan si, inace nisam znao da je krsenje pravila pisanje istine,krsenje pravila je vredjanje koje radis ti i tebi slicni,ponizavanjem na nacionalnoj osnovi i konstantno nazivanje Srba robovima,to je krsenje pravila, trolanje,vredjanje na nacionalnoj osnovi i fasizam

Ne treba biti nešto pretjereno providan da bi se vidjelo je li nešto prozirno ili nije. Paranoja od "naloga".
Ovo je moj prvi post na ovoj temi, prema tome o kakvom vrijeđanju ti govoriš?
Ti si taj koji neprestano kršiš pravila, prvenstveno skretanjem sa zadane teme, a zatim sa svojim nacionalističkim ispadima. A za etimologiju imena svoga naroda ne krivi niti mene niti ostale forumaše.

[bubica74]

Može li i jedna tema da izbjegne međusobna prepucavanja na S-H osnovi?

[mozak_free]

forumas ja kaže:

Old Norwegian - Viking travel writers Sigurd, Ohtere, and Wulfstan from the 8th century mention the Kingdom of Krowataland on the territory of today's Ukraine. It has been investigated by a Czech historian and writer Karel Krocha.

Da li imaš kakv link za ovaj navod? Taj Krowataland sam prvi put zamjetio na metapediji i pokušao ga naći na svemrežju, pa i ove putopisce, no nisam uspio (to ne znači da ne postoji nega da ga ja nisam našao). I s tim putopiscima je problem, a kamoli sa njihovim zapisima.

[mozak_free]

mozak_free kaže:

Da li imaš kakv link za ovaj navod? Taj Krowataland sam prvi put zamjetio na metapediji i pokušao ga naći na svemrežju, pa i ove putopisce, no nisam uspio (to ne znači da ne postoji nega da ga ja nisam našao). I s tim putopiscima je problem, a kamoli sa njihovim zapisima.

Evo uz malo surfanja do čega sam došao:

Povjesničar Karel Krocha - nisam našao pravog.

Wulfstan:

Ohthere of Hålogaland

Sigurd je malo problematičniji. Nije jasno na kojeg Sigurda se navod odnosi budući da se uopće ne spominje neki Sigurd kao putopisac u 8.stoljeću.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd_(disambiguation)

Navod o osom stoljeću NIJE dobar.

I dalje tražim Metapedijski Krowataland.

[Vrek]

Dilberth kaže:

I kako to od B-o-j-k-i postadose S-r-b-i?

Bojki su i danas Bojki na njihovom jeziku, kao i na jezicima okolnih naroda. I nadalje, ako cemo uzimati slijepo i doslovno sve sto DAI kaze, zasto odbacivati ono o Servima-robovima i sorbuljama?

Sorabi ili sor-rabi, koje Einhard spominje, doslovno znaci granicni robovi, sluge, t.j. granicari.

Još mi nisi odgovorio gdje to točno Einhard u svom djelu spominje Srbe i nastanak njihovog imena.

[forumas ja]

mozak_free kaže:

Da li imaš kakv link za ovaj navod? Taj Krowataland sam prvi put zamjetio na metapediji i pokušao ga naći na svemrežju, pa i ove putopisce, no nisam uspio (to ne znači da ne postoji nega da ga ja nisam našao). I s tim putopiscima je problem, a kamoli sa njihovim zapisima.

http://www.croatia.org/crown/article...y-of-Lviv.html

http://www.croatianhistory.net/etf/norway.html

[forumas ja]

Vrek kaže:

Još mi nisi odgovorio gdje to točno Einhard u svom djelu spominje Srbe i nastanak njihovog imena.

Pise u DAI kao i to isto pise i Giljeljmo Tirski

[forumas ja]

Evo karta Slavena u 8 stoljeću

obratiti pažnju na White Croats i Croat


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ea...th_century.jpg

[forumas ja]

I vrlo je zanimljivo da strani povijesnicari razlikuju Srbe i Sorbe i da to nisu isti narod, to je bar svima jasno


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs

[forumas ja]

In 'Hervarar Saga', Snorre Sturlason's Edda, which plays out in the Gothic world of the 4th century, the Carpathians are called 'Herevati', which in Gothic means 'Heights' (Here) and 'Crossing' (Vati), which indicates that it purportedly refers to the cross-over from east to west between Greater Carpathia and Lesser Carpathia along river Tisza. The Croatians endonym name 'Hervati' seem to point to the same source of origin. In such case, 'white' (cardinal direction north) would be somewhere at the upper Vistula/Slovakian Paradise, while 'black' Croatians would have lived in Lesser Carpathia.

Historians often point at the north part of Czech, Silesia, Lesser Poland or Ukraine as the places where White Croatia happened to be located.

[Dilberth]

Vrek kaže:

Još mi nisi odgovorio gdje to točno Einhard u svom djelu spominje Srbe i nastanak njihovog imena.

Pa odgovorio sam ti indirektno u mojoj diskusiji sa Velikim Despotom. Einhard spominje Sorabe na nekoliko mjesta, uzmi pa citaj. Gdje on "tocno spominje nastanak njihovog imena", ja to nisam rekao, to si ti dovukao, i morati ces potraziti sam. Za pocetak, pogledaj u DAI 32, tamo ima nesto o Srbima i postanku njihovog imena. Ja sam samo dao prijevod i znacenje naziva "sor-rab".

[forumas ja]

Evo u ovoj sagi se spominje Bijela Hrvatska

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hervara..._Hei%C3%B0reks

The matter on the Gothic wars with the Huns is of considerable age, and is based on events from the early or mid-4th century that were transmitted for almost 1000 years.

It is a testimony to its great age that names appear in genuinely Germanic forms and not in any form remotely influenced by Latin. Names for Goths appear that stopped being used after 390, such as Grýting (Ostrogoth, cf. the Latin form Greutungi) and Tyrfing (Visigoth, cf. the Latin form Tervingi). The events take place where the Goths lived during the wars with the Huns. The Gothic capital Arheimar is located on the Dniepr (...á Danparstöðum á þeim bæ, er Árheimar heita...), King Heidrek dies in the Horvatya (...und Harvaða fjöllum) and the Battle with the Huns takes place on the plains of the Danube (...á vígvöll á Dúnheiði í Dylgjudölum). The mythical Mirkwood which separates the Goths from the Huns, appears to correspond to Maeotian marshes.

[mozak_free]

forumas ja kaže:

Evo u ovoj sagi se spominje Bijela Hrvatska

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hervara..._Hei%C3%B0reks

The matter on the Gothic wars with the Huns is of considerable age, and is based on events from the early or mid-4th century that were transmitted for almost 1000 years.

It is a testimony to its great age that names appear in genuinely Germanic forms and not in any form remotely influenced by Latin. Names for Goths appear that stopped being used after 390, such as Grýting (Ostrogoth, cf. the Latin form Greutungi) and Tyrfing (Visigoth, cf. the Latin form Tervingi). The events take place where the Goths lived during the wars with the Huns. The Gothic capital Arheimar is located on the Dniepr (...á Danparstöðum á þeim bæ, er Árheimar heita...), King Heidrek dies in the Horvatya (...und Harvaða fjöllum) and the Battle with the Huns takes place on the plains of the Danube (...á vígvöll á Dúnheiði í Dylgjudölum). The mythical Mirkwood which separates the Goths from the Huns, appears to correspond to Maeotian marshes.

Hvala na linkovima. Ovaj koji je napisao Žubrinić je jako dobar, ali ne upućuje na originalne zapise. Imam loša iskustva s time, pa sve provjeravam.

Ima jedno selo u Grčkoj na Peloponezu: Harvation. I to se povlačilo i vezivalo na Hrvate na metapediji. No, uz malo istrage ustanovio sam da se radi o Vlasima Arvanitima (iz Albanije) koji su se tamo naselili.


Harvaða fjöllum - to je fraza iz Hervar sage. Radi se o gorju nazivom Harvaða.

To sam i ja našao listajući sagu. Može li se to povezati s Hrvatima ili ne to je druga stvar. To definitivno NIJE naziv države nego gorja, npr. Karpati.

Mene više muče ovi drugi putopisci. I tu nailazim na probleme.

Wulfstan:

Wulfstan of Hedeby (Latin Haithabu) was a late ninth century traveller and trader. His travel accounts, as well as those of another trader, Ohthere, were included in Alfred the Great's translation of Orosius' Histories. It is unclear if Wulfstan was English or indeed if he was from Hedeby, in today's northern Germany near the city of Schleswig.

According to this account,[clarification needed] Wulfstan undertook a journey by sea from Hedeby to the trading centre of Truso around the year 880. He names the lands the coasts he passes.

"Wulfstan said that he went from Haethum to Truso in seven days and nights, and that the ship was running under sail all the way. Weonodland was on his right, and Langland, Laeland, Falster, and Sconey, on his left, all which land is subject to Denmark. "Then on our left we had the land of the Burgundians, who have a king to themselves. Then, after the land of the Burgundians, we had on our left the lands that have been called from the earliest times Blekingey, and Meore, and Eowland, and Gotland, all which territory is subject to the Sweons; and Weonodland (= the land of the Wends) was all the way on our right, as far as Weissel-mouth."
This may be the earliest recorded use of the word "Denmark" (or "Danemearcan").

Wulfstan prvi spominje Dansku, ali o Krowatalandu ni riječi za sada. Probati ću naći te originale na svemrežju.

Weissel - mouth : ušće Visle

[mozak_free]

Kopam po svemrežju u potrazi za originalnim zapisima:

Tko je bio Alfred:

THE GEOGRAPHY OF EUROPE BY KING ALFRED, ETC.

Translated in 1807 by the Rev. James Ingram, M.A., Professor of

Anglo-Saxon at the University of Oxford.

Objavljeno ovdje:

Wulfstan i Othere nisu sami napisali o svojim putovanjima nego su to u vidu iskaza dali Alfredu koji je to pretočio u svoju krasnu knjižicu.

P.S. Alfredova geograija se nalazi pred kraj knjige.

THE VOYAGES OF OHTHERE AND WULFSTAN
To the White Sea and to the Mouth of the Vistula in the Time of
Alfred the Great, with Notes on the Geography of Europe inserted by
KING ALFRED, In his Translation of Orosius.

The "History of Orosius" itself is bald, confused; but it was enriched and improved by Alfred's addition to the first book of much new matter, enlarging knowledge of the geography of Europe, which he calls Germania, north of the Rhine and Danube. Alfred adds also to the same book geographical narratives taken from the lips of two travellers. One was Ohthere, a Norwegian, who sailed from Halgoland, on the coast of Norway, round the North Cape into the Cwen-Sae, or White Sea, and entered the mouth of the river Dwina, the voyage ending where there is now Archangel, the most northern of the Russian seaports. Ohthere afterwards made a second voyage from Halgoland along the west and south coast of Norway to the Bay of Christiania, and Sciringeshael, the port of Skerin, or Skien, near the entrance of the Christiania fjord. He then sailed southward, and reached in five days the Danish port aet Haedum, the capital town called Sleswic by the Saxons, but by the Danes Haithaby. The other traveller was Wulfstan, who sailed in the Baltic, from Slesvig in Denmark to Frische Haff within the Gulf of Danzig, reaching the Drausen Sea by Elbing. These voyages were taken from the travellers' own lips. Of Wulfstan's, the narrative passes at one time into the form of direct personal narration—"Wulfstan said that he went . . . that he had . . . And then we had on our left the land of the Burgundians [Bornholmians], who had their own king. After the land of the Burgundians we had on our left," &c. The narrative of the other voyage opens with the sentence, "Ohthere told his lord, King Alfred." These three additions to "Orosius"—the Description of Europe, the two voyages of Ohthere, and the voyage of Wulfstan— may be considered Alfred's own works.