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Duhovnost Slobodnim stilom...

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Old 18.03.2003., 21:38   #21
Quote:
Eowyn,ti izgledas potpuno emancipirana!

Eh Aganore, stvari vrlo često nisu onakve kakvima se doimlju.
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koliko smo sretni ti i ja, čiji je dom bezvremenost: mi koji smo dolutali s mirisnih planina vječne sadašnjosti igrati se tajnama, kao što su rođenje i smrt, u jednome danu(ili možda čak i manje)
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Old 18.03.2003., 22:02   #22
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Gdje god da kreneš već si tamo
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Old 20.03.2003., 09:50   #23
Re: još nekaj...

Quote:
general Norec kaže:
...savjetujem raznim joginima, gnosticima, kršćanima i ostalim poklonicima nebeskih duhovnosti etc da se ne trude davati odgovore - MENI i ZBOG MENE.

Dovoljno sam obrazovan na tom polju da otprilike znam kako bi čiji odgovori izgledali...i ne da mi ih se ponovo čitati.
Ne zadovoljavaju me i ne shvaćam ih ozbiljno u svom unutrašnjem svijetu.

Mislim, nek pišu ak im se da...ali meni se to trenutno uopće ne čita.

++AMEN++ (&nayte key zameriti )



Jel da ja malo objasnim kaj je Norec ovime htel reći....


Da pas mater svim ostalim sustavima osim njegovog osobnog (koji se svojim velikim djelom može mirne duše klasificirati pod Europsko vještičarstvo) ?

Da ne želi čuti više ničije mišljenje ?

Da je fanatik ?


BRUS !


Ništa od toga nije točno.
Spoznao sam da ljudi koji rade na sebi u određenim trenucima dobiju potrebu podijeliti to svoje znanje sa drugima...ali nije lako steči jednu važnu mudrost: da li, kada i kome znanje dati, a kada šutjeti.


Uostalom, kako i uz najbolju volju prenijeti svoje iskustvo nekome a da to ne bude uplitanje u individualni razvoj te osobe.
A ako nas je za znanje koje posjedujemo netko i zamolio, tražio, pitao....
kako onda prenijeti nešto što smo skupljali
i to najvjerojatnije godinama
(ako ne i ŽIVOTIMA !!!)...
kada sve zbrojimo ispada da smo to skupljali teško i mukotrpno, mrvicu po mrvicu...

ako nije bilo tako, po meni to onda to znanje i njie znanje
već hrpa nabubanih informacija.


Također, radom na sebi u nama (kakvim god da "bojama" puta hodali ) se otvara i širi tolerancija, senzibilnost, poštovanje prema drugima....
Otvara se još jedna važna spoznaja:
od drugih stvarno možemo i dobiti
po koju vrijednu mrvicu koju su nam voljni dati,
samo moramo biti voljni ju i primiti.

(Ne, ne govorim o početničkom žicarenju rješenja za sve probleme ! )


Ponekad je zato malo teško povuč granicu : "Eh, ja "za sebe" radim to i to,
i zato uz svo dužno poštovanje prema drugima
i prema njihovim sustavima i zrncima
koja mogu obogatiti moj vlastiti razvoj
moram malo zatvoriti rampe
i RADITI sa svojim duhovnim praksama,
a ne filati glavu sa JOŠJOŠJOŠJOŠJOŠJOŠJOŠ informacija
i znanja iz drugih sustava,
već se koncentrirano držati onoga u čemu se nađoh...i RADITI RADITI RADITI !"


Ne, sakupljanje svega i svačega u ogromnim količinama
od svuda od kuda nešto možemo pokupiti stvarno nema niti poželjnog efekta niti smisla.
Kao ni dijeljenje onoga što znamo iz svojega sustava
bez da smo dobro odvagali što, kada, koliko i kome dati...
Kazna za "bacanje biserja onima koji ih neće prepoznati" je jednostavna: razočaranost i frustracija
Vjerujem da je svakome to poznato
Rekel bi' iz svog iskustva: ništa strašno...sve to prođe


A ak nekaj nismo probali sami...nemremo ni znati kaje to !
Tako da se ni tih poslovični "margaritofobnih svinja" ne trebamo bojati.
Ak je Biserje stvarno pravo, nit ga možemo potrošiti, nit nas "svinje" stvarno mogu rastrgati.

Ak biserje nije pravo...drugi put bumo bolje pazili kaj bacamo onima
koji se i neće ponašati bolje od svinja,
ako samo ih zmazanim i neukim svinjama
negdje u sebi zapravo već unaprijed
umišljeno proglasili,
i tim ih biserjem vjerojatno
željeli transformirati u,

kajaznam, pegaze i jednoroge...



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Old 20.03.2003., 10:13   #24
Copernic, ovo me podsjeca na jednu pricicu. Kad su pitali Budhu da im objasni kako je to biti u nirvani on im je ispricao pricicu o ribi i kornjaci koje su zajedno zivjele u jezeru. Kornjaca je povremeno izlazila da bi svrljala po kopnu. A riba se cudom cudila gdje to kornjaca odlazi. I kad ju je pitala, kornjaca joj je pokusala objasniti ali bezuspjesno. Jer riba nikako nije mogla skuziti sto to znaci hodati, kako se to moze opstati na suhom, sto vise ona nije mogla uopce skuziti sto je to 'suho'. I tako mogla je kornjaca objasnjavati satima...ribi nista nije bilo jasnije. Jedini nacin da riba shvati o cemu kornjaca prica je da sama izadje na kopno. Ali tada bi riba jednostavno umrla jer nije spremna za zivot na kopnu.

Ali moje misljenje je da je riba ipak dobila predodzbu o tome da ovaj njezin svijet koji ona poznaje nije jedini, a bez kornjace to nikad ne bi saznala. Eto, zato mislim da ponekad treba poslusati kornjacu ali dok sami nemamo iskustvo kornjace nikad necemo skuziti potpuno o cemu to ona prica
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Old 20.03.2003., 11:04   #25
Quote:
Ali moje misljenje je da je riba ipak dobila predodzbu o tome da ovaj njezin svijet koji ona poznaje nije jedini, a bez kornjace to nikad ne bi saznala. Eto, zato mislim da ponekad treba poslusati kornjacu ali dok sami nemamo iskustvo kornjace nikad necemo skuziti potpuno o cemu to ona prica



Zato se otkoprcavam natrag u svoje jezero - dok mi se škrge još nisu posušile
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Old 20.03.2003., 13:50   #26
Quote:
Uranus kaže:
Kad su pitali Budhu da im objasni kako je to biti u nirvani on im je ispricao pricicu o ribi i kornjaci koje su zajedno zivjele u jezeru. Kornjaca je povremeno izlazila da bi svrljala po kopnu. A riba se cudom cudila gdje to kornjaca odlazi. I kad ju je pitala, kornjaca joj je pokusala objasniti ali bezuspjesno. Jer riba nikako nije mogla skuziti sto to znaci hodati, kako se to moze opstati na suhom, sto vise ona nije mogla uopce skuziti sto je to 'suho'. I tako mogla je kornjaca objasnjavati satima...ribi nista nije bilo jasnije. Jedini nacin da riba shvati o cemu kornjaca prica je da sama izadje na kopno. Ali tada bi riba jednostavno umrla jer nije spremna za zivot na kopnu.
Uranus, ova priča je super. Baš mi se sviđa.
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Old 20.03.2003., 14:37   #27
Talking Hmmm...bicikl sam popravil...

...i prije neg se odem lijepo vozit...bacam spam svih spamova



What is Chaos Magick?


What"is Chaos Magic? Good question. Since it burst upon the
magical scene in the late ‘70’s it has generated a great deal of
debate about what it is, what it isn’t, and who’s doing it ‘right’
- such circular arguments being beloved of occultists, it seems.
At this point, it would be tempting to launch into a lengthy
discussion of the history of magic leading up to Chaos magic,
but instead I’ll confine it to a sweeping generalisation and say
that before Chaos came kicking and screaming onto the scene,
the dominant approach to ‘doing magic’ (and still is, to a great
extent) was the ‘Systems’ approach.


So what is a magical system? Magical systems combine
practical exercises for bringing about change with beliefs,
attitudes, a conceptual model of the universe (if not several), a
moral ethic, and a few other things besides. Examples of
systems are Qabalah, the different Wiccan ‘traditions’, The
Golden Dawn system of magic with all its grades, costumes,
mottos etc, and the increasing number of westernised
‘shamanic’ paths that are proliferating nowadays.

As far as most magical systems go, before you can start
to wave your wand around or bounce up and down on your head ‘til you
reach enlightenment, you have to spend a good deal of time
reading up on the beliefs associated with the system, learning
its “do’s and don’ts”, committing to memory lists of symbols
and correspondences, how to talk to your fellow magi, and in
some extreme cases, how to dress, walk, and chew gum at the
same time. How does this come about? Well magic, like some
of the great religious messages is essentially simple, but is
prey to the process whereby simple ideas become extremely
complicated beliefs which can lead you further and further
away from doing any magic at all. Weave back through time
to ‘somewhere in the paleolithic era’ to find a tribal shaman
sitting on a rock gaping at the visions revealed by a soggy
piece of toadstool. Fast-forwards a few millenia and you’ll
find a ‘Magical System’ that comprises of several hundredthousand words,
obscure diagrams and appendices which will probably state at some point, that drugs are a no-no.


The birth of Chaos magic came about in the late 70’s, at about
the time that punk rock was spitting out at the music industry
and Chaos Science was beginning to be taken seriously by
mathematicians, economists, and physicists. The two ‘names’
most associated with the birth of Chaos magic are Pete Carroll
and Ray Sherwin, though there were others lurking in the
background, such as the Stoke Newington Sorcerors (SNS)
who later became entwined with the first stirrings of the Punk
movement.

Some of Pete Carroll’s early writings on Chaos was published
in The New Equinox, published by Ray Sherwin, in which the
first adverts proclaiming the advent of the Illuminates of
Thanateros (IOT) magical order appeared. Interestingly
enough, there is no mention of the term ‘chaos’ in the earliest
versions of IOT material.


Ray Sherwin’s Morton Press then issued Pete Carroll’s Liber
Null, and Sherwin’s own The Book of Results, which
expounded the very practical method of ‘Sigilisation’ as
developed by Austin Osman Spare, which has become one of
the core techniques associated with Chaos magic.
The early growth of Chaos magic was characterised by a loose
network of informal groups who came together to experiment
with the possibilities of the new current. With the demise of
The New Equinox, the ‘chaos kids’ reported their results and
heresies in the pages of Chris Bray’s new magazine, The Lamp
of Thoth. The early Chaos books were joined by two tapes
‘The Chaos Concept’ which discussed the basics of Chaos
magic, and ‘The Chaochamber’, a science-fiction pathworking
which combined elements of Star Trek, Michael Moorcock,
and H.G. Wells. Chris Bray’s ‘Sorceror’s Apprentice’ Press
then re-released, Liber Null, The Book of Results, as well as
two new books, Pete Carroll’s Psychonaut, and Ray Sherwin’s
The Theatre of magic. These, together with articles from the
growing Chaos corpus in the LOT, drew more people into
experimenting with the new approach. Thanks to the efforts
of Ralph Tegtmeier, the Chaos approach was also receiving
attention in continental Europe.
The basic message of Chaos magic is that, what is fundamental
to magic is the actual doing of it - that like sex, no amount of
theorising and intellectualisation can substitute for the actual
experience. Pete Carroll’s Liber Null, therefore, presented the
bare bones of the magical techniques which can be employed
to bring about change in one’s circumstances. Liber Null
concentrated on techniques, saying that the actual methods of
magic are basically shared by the different systems, despite
the differing symbols, beliefs and dogmas. What symbol
systems you wish to employ is a matter of choice, and that the
webs of belief which surround them are means to an end, rather
than ends in themselves (more of which later).
Phil Hine
An important influence on the development of Chaos magic
was the writing of Robert Anton Wilson & co, particularly the
Discordian Society who revered Eris, the Greek goddess of
Chaos. The Discordians pointed out that humour, clowning
about and general light-heartedness was conspiciously absent
from magic, which had a tendency to become very ‘serious
and self-important’. There was (and to a certain extent remains)
a tendency for occultists to think of themselves as an initiated
‘elite’ as opposed to the rest of humanity.


Unlike the variety of magical systems which are all based in
some mythical or historically-derived past (such as Atlantis,
Lemuria, Albion, etc), Chaos magic borrowed freely from
Science Fiction, Quantum Physics, and anything else its
practitioners chose to. Rather than trying to recover and
maintain a tradition that links back to the past (and former
glories), Chaos magic is an approach that enables the individual
to use anything that s/he thinks is suitable as a temporary belief
or symbol system. What matters is the results you get, not the
‘authenticity’ of the system used.

So Chaos magic then, is not a system - it utilises systems
and encourages adherents to devise their own, giving magic a truly Postmodernist flavour.


Needless to say, Chaos magic began to acquire a ‘sinister’
reputation. This was due to three factors; firstly that its
“pick’n’mix/D.I.Y” approach to magic was frowned upon by
the ‘traditionalist’ schools, secondly that many people
associated chaos with ‘anarchy’ and other negative
associations, and thirdly that some Chaos magic publications
were hyped as being ‘blasphemous, sinister, and dangerous’
in a way that they were not, which proved all the same to be an
attractive glamour for those who required such a boost to the
ego.
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