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Old 25.05.2008., 17:27   #21
Quote:
JoZ@ kaže: Pogledaj post
nisam znal da za mig 21 nije bil predviden top
Da, prve inačice mig-a 21. koje su bile isporučene sjevernom vjetnamu nisu imale topove (!!!), no to je brzo ispravljeno, i uglavnom s topovima su vjetnamski piloti postigli najviše pobjeda (uz strategiju navlačenja amena na svoj pzo), I mig-21 I Fantom su bili projektirani za borbu s neprijateljskim bombarderima na velikim visinama, a pouzdanost američkih raketa je bila katastrofalna!

Evo još malo gluposti ili prije bizarnih činjenica vezanih za dsr:

The first German serviceman killed in the war was killed by the Japanese (China, 1937)

The first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians (Finland 1940).

80% of Soviet males born in 1923 didn't survive World War 2

The highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen. Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps.

Between 1939 and 1945 the Allies dropped 3.4 million tons of bombs, An average of about 27,700 tons of bombs each month.

12,000 heavy bombers were shot down in World War 2

2/3 of Allied bomber crews were lost for each plane destroyed

3 or 4 ground men were wounded for each killed

6 bomber crewmen were killed for each one wounded

Over 100,000 Allied bomber crewmen were killed over Europe

There were 433 Medals of Honor awarded during World War 2, 219 of them were given after the receipiant's death

From 6 June 1944 to 8 May 1945 in Europe the Allies had 200,000 dead and 550,000 wounded

The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was wounded in combat and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. (His benefits were later restored by act of Congress).

At the time of Pearl Harbor, the top US Navy command was called CINCUS (pronounced “sink us”), the shoulder patch of the US Army’s 45th Infantry division was the swastika, and Hitler’s private train was named “Amerika”. All three were soon changed for PR purposes.

Germany lost 110 Division Commanders in combat

40,000 men served on U-Boats during World War 2; 30,000 never returned

More US servicemen died in the Air Corps that the Marine Corps. While completing the required 30 missions, your chance of being killed was 71%. Not that bombers were helpless. A B-17 carried 4 tons of bombs and 1.5 tons of machine gun ammo. The US 8th Air Force shot down 6,098 fighter planes, 1 for every 12,700 shots fired.

Germany’s power grid was much more vulnerable than realized. One estimate is that if just 1% of the bombs dropped on German industry had instead been dropped on power plants, German industry would have collapsed.

Generally speaking, there was no such thing as an average fighter pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo plane.

It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th found with a tracer round to aid in aiming. That was a mistake. The tracers had different ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target, 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet, the tracers instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo. That was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and their loss rate go down.

When allied armies reached the Rhine, the first thing men did was pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in the act).

German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn’t worth the effort.

A number of air crewmen died of farts. (ascending to 20,000 ft. in an un-pressurized aircraft causes intestinal gas to expand 300%!)

Germany lost 40-45% of their aircraft during World War 2 to accidents

The Russians destroyed over 500 German aircraft by ramming them in midair (they also sometimes cleared minefields by marching over them). “It takes a brave man not to be a hero in the Red Army”. - Joseph Stalin

The average German officer slot had to be refilled 9.2 times

The US Army had more ships that the US Navy.

The German Air Force had 22 infantry divisions, 2 armor divisions, and 11 paratroop divisions. None of them were capable of airborne operations. The German Army had paratroops who WERE capable of airborne operations.

When the US Army landed in North Africa, among the equipment brought ashore were 3 complete Coca Cola bottling plants.

84 German Generals were executed by Hitler

Among the first “Germans” captured at Normandy were several Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they were capture by the US Army.

The Graf Spee never sank, The scuttling attempt failed and the ship was bought by the British. On board was Germany’s newest radar system.

One of Japan’s methods of destroying tanks was to bury a very large artillery shell with on ly the nose exposed. When a tank came near the enough a soldier would whack the shell with a hammer. “Lack of weapons is no excuse for defeat.” – Lt. Gen. Mataguchi

Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 US and Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska. 21 troops were killed in the fire-fight. It would have been worse if there had been Japanese on the island.

The MISS ME was an unarmed Piper Cub. While spotting for US artillery her pilot saw a similar German plane doing the same thing. He dove on the German plane and he and his co-pilot fired their pistols damaging the German plane enough that it had to make a forced landing. Whereupon they landed and took the Germans prisoner. It is unknown where they put them since the MISS ME only had two seats.

Most members of the Waffen SS were not German.

Air attacks caused 1/3 of German Generals' deaths

By D-Day, the Germans had 1.5 million railway workers operating 988,000 freight cars and used 29,000 per day

During the Japanese attack on Hong Kong, British officers objected to Canadian infantrymen taking up positions in the officer’s mess. No enlisted men allowed!

By D-Day, 35% of all German soldiers had been wounded at least once, 11% twice, 6% three times, 2% four times and 2% more than 4 times

Germany lost 136 Generals, which averages out to be 1 dead General every 2 weeks
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Old 25.05.2008., 17:40   #22
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von_ungern kaže:
German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn’t worth the effort.
glupost žešća
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Old 25.05.2008., 17:58   #23
To što smo odustali od borbenih helikoptera i podmornica,idemo dalje.
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Old 25.05.2008., 18:28   #24
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JoZ@ kaže: Pogledaj post
nisam znal da za mig 21 nije bil predviden top
Koliko ja znam na početku su (i to tek kasnije) počeli dodavati top u nekakvom spremniku ispod trupa.
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Old 25.05.2008., 18:33   #25
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MiG 0 kaže: Pogledaj post
Koliko ja znam na početku su (i to tek kasnije) počeli dodavati top u nekakvom spremniku ispod trupa.
Da,PM/PFM verzija,mislim

Do bisa,niti jedna verzija nije imala ugrađen top
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Old 25.05.2008., 18:40   #26
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Pilatus kaže: Pogledaj post
Da,PM/PFM verzija,mislim

Do bisa,niti jedna verzija nije imala ugrađen top
aj kad smo vec kod migova
koje je verzije imala YU
osim bisa i dvosjeda (neznam oznaku)
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Old 25.05.2008., 18:46   #27
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JoZ@ kaže: Pogledaj post
aj kad smo vec kod migova
koje je verzije imala YU
osim bisa i dvosjeda (neznam oznaku)
Quote:
In total Yugoslavia received more than 260 MiG-21 of different versions which were given a local designation (L- for single-seater, NL- for twin-seater):

1962: MiG-21F-13 (L-12),
1965: MiG-21U (NL-12),
1967 or 1968: MiG-21PFM (L-14),
1969: MiG-21US (NL-14),
1970: MiG-21R (L-14i) and MiG-21M (L-15)
1975: MiG-21MF (L-16) and finally
1977: MiG-21bis (L-17).


Iako na ovom popisu nema UM-ova(Mongola)
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Old 25.05.2008., 19:27   #28
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c/p wikipedia

A neutron bomb is a type of tactical nuclear weapon developed specifically to release a relatively large portion of its energy as energetic neutron radiation. This contrasts with standard thermo-nuclear weapons, which are designed to capture the intense neutron radiation inside the bomb to increase its overall yield. The technical term for the neutron bomb is "enhanced radiation weapon" (ERW). In terms of explosive yield, ERWs are about one-tenth that of a conventional fission type weapon.

U čemu je problem?
Problem je nakon što su američki stratezi shvatili što bi se dogodilo kada baciš neutronsku bombu npr na jednu rusku oklopnu diviziju. Dakle, postoje letalne zone u rasponu trenutne smrti do sigurne smrti u rasponu od par dana do par tjedana.
Tada se netko od stratega zapitao što će raditi ti ozračeni rusi čiji je vijek trajanja nekoliko dana ili tjedana a oko sebe imaju potpuno upotrebljivu tehniku. Čačkati nokte? Zaključak je kako bi imali udar kamikaza neviđenih raspona sa tehnikom koja je daleko od krhkih aviončića od balze. A kad ti se protivnik ne boji smrti a ima jednako vrijednu tehniku, nije dobro vući vraga za rep.

Nadalje, pošto je riječ o nuklearnom oružju rusi bi odgovorili pravim nuklearkama a ne neutronskim oružjem. Time se gubi se svaki smisao jer, imaš nuklearni rat a protivnički resursi ostaju čitavi. Glupo, zar ne?
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Old 25.05.2008., 19:48   #29
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fgzcvijetic kaže: Pogledaj post
Problem je nakon što su američki stratezi shvatili što bi se dogodilo kada baciš neutronsku bombu npr na jednu rusku oklopnu diviziju. Dakle, postoje letalne zone u rasponu trenutne smrti do sigurne smrti u rasponu od par dana do par tjedana.
Tada se netko od stratega zapitao što će raditi ti ozračeni rusi čiji je vijek trajanja nekoliko dana ili tjedana a oko sebe imaju potpuno upotrebljivu tehniku. Čačkati nokte? Zaključak je kako bi imali udar kamikaza neviđenih raspona sa tehnikom koja je daleko od krhkih aviončića od balze. A kad ti se protivnik ne boji smrti a ima jednako vrijednu tehniku, nije dobro vući vraga za rep.

Nadalje, pošto je riječ o nuklearnom oružju rusi bi odgovorili pravim nuklearkama a ne neutronskim oružjem. Time se gubi se svaki smisao jer, imaš nuklearni rat a protivnički resursi ostaju čitavi. Glupo, zar ne?
Inače, razvoj neutronske bombe (mrzim taj naziv) je počeo kao bojna glava za Zeus ABM sustav, a tek onda je nekome palo na pamet da bi se mogla koristiti i protiv flote tenkova.
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Old 25.05.2008., 20:01   #30
Neznam jel itko spomenuo nešto iz novina: "Osim Gripena bla bla bla, Hrvatska je zainteresirana i za Američki program F-35...."

Nešto je bilo ovako. Ja umro...
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Old 25.05.2008., 20:20   #31
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MiG 0 kaže: Pogledaj post
Neznam jel itko spomenuo nešto iz novina: "Osim Gripena bla bla bla, Hrvatska je zainteresirana i za Američki program F-35...."

Nešto je bilo ovako. Ja umro...
Zašto? Bilo je spominjano u, čini mi se, Jutarnjem kao opcija ako uzmemo korišteni F-16 da onda kasnije kupimo F-35 što je daleko najmoćnije od svega ponuđenoga.
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Kao prvo, Kur'an odobrava blago udariti ženu u odrećenim situacijama. To je točno! Ali ne da se ženi čini nasilje! - Shady.
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Old 25.05.2008., 20:24   #32
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Tyndall kaže: Pogledaj post
Zašto? Bilo je spominjano u, čini mi se, Jutarnjem kao opcija ako uzmemo korišteni F-16 da onda kasnije kupimo F-35 što je daleko najmoćnije od svega ponuđenoga.
To je bilo ima neko vrime (kad su migovi bili u Rumunjskoj) i govorilo se da se odmah kupi (F-35), a ne nakon nekog vrimena (čim se počnu proizvoditi)

U svakom slučaju neki debilni list s tiražom od 1000 primjeraka.
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Old 25.05.2008., 20:26   #33
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MiG 0 kaže: Pogledaj post
To je bilo ima neko vrime (kad su migovi bili u Rumunjskoj) i govorilo se da se odmah kupi (F-35), a ne nakon nekog vrimena (čim se počnu proizvoditi)
Well, malo bi bilo komplicirano kupiti F-35 prije nego krene proizvodnja...
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Old 25.05.2008., 20:28   #34
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Tyndall kaže: Pogledaj post
Zašto? Bilo je spominjano u, čini mi se, Jutarnjem kao opcija ako uzmemo korišteni F-16 da onda kasnije kupimo F-35 što je daleko najmoćnije od svega ponuđenoga.

kolko kasnije
par desetljeca sigurno
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Old 25.05.2008., 20:35   #35
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JoZ@ kaže: Pogledaj post

kolko kasnije
par desetljeca sigurno
A oni su o tome pričali dok je još bio u razvoju, i to da ih HR uzme čim se počnu proizvodit.
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Old 25.05.2008., 20:38   #36
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JoZ@ kaže: Pogledaj post

kolko kasnije
par desetljeca sigurno
za oko 10 godina,ovisno koji bi nam kriterij dodijelili Ameri

Al kad gledaš to je najbolja opcija.
Prvo nam se piloti i zemaljsko osoblje priviknu na suvremeniju US tehniku i onda je prelazak na F-35 puno lakši
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Old 25.05.2008., 20:39   #37
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MiG 0 kaže: Pogledaj post
i to da ih HR uzme čim se počnu proizvodit.
aha
a onda ih je svizac zamoto i nije se vise mogo sjetit di ih je stavil
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Old 25.05.2008., 21:04   #38
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Pilatus kaže: Pogledaj post
Da,PM/PFM verzija,mislim

Do bisa,niti jedna verzija nije imala ugrađen top
Oooo, puno ih je više imalo top. To što kažeš vrijedi za drugu generaciju dvajstjedinica (PF, FL, PFS), te uvjetno PFM jer on ima GSh 23mm top u centralnom spremniku. Prva generacija (F, F-13 tj. Fishbed C) imala je ugrađen NR-30 top-dva, a treća generacija - kasniji S (M), SM (MF) i SMT, imaju GSh 23 ugrađen, isto kao i bis koji je četvrta gen.
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Old 25.05.2008., 21:14   #39
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von_ungern kaže: Pogledaj post
Da, prve inačice mig-a 21. koje su bile isporučene sjevernom vjetnamu nisu imale topove (!!!), no to je brzo ispravljeno, i uglavnom s topovima su vjetnamski piloti postigli najviše pobjeda (uz strategiju navlačenja amena na svoj pzo), I mig-21 I Fantom su bili projektirani za borbu s neprijateljskim bombarderima na velikim visinama, a pouzdanost američkih raketa je bila katastrofalna!

Evo još malo gluposti ili prije bizarnih činjenica vezanih za dsr:

The first German serviceman killed in the war was killed by the Japanese (China, 1937)

The first American serviceman killed was killed by the Russians (Finland 1940).

80% of Soviet males born in 1923 didn't survive World War 2

The highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen. Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps.

Between 1939 and 1945 the Allies dropped 3.4 million tons of bombs, An average of about 27,700 tons of bombs each month.

12,000 heavy bombers were shot down in World War 2

2/3 of Allied bomber crews were lost for each plane destroyed

3 or 4 ground men were wounded for each killed

6 bomber crewmen were killed for each one wounded

Over 100,000 Allied bomber crewmen were killed over Europe

There were 433 Medals of Honor awarded during World War 2, 219 of them were given after the receipiant's death

From 6 June 1944 to 8 May 1945 in Europe the Allies had 200,000 dead and 550,000 wounded

The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN. He was wounded in combat and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his age. (His benefits were later restored by act of Congress).

At the time of Pearl Harbor, the top US Navy command was called CINCUS (pronounced “sink us”), the shoulder patch of the US Army’s 45th Infantry division was the swastika, and Hitler’s private train was named “Amerika”. All three were soon changed for PR purposes.

Germany lost 110 Division Commanders in combat

40,000 men served on U-Boats during World War 2; 30,000 never returned

More US servicemen died in the Air Corps that the Marine Corps. While completing the required 30 missions, your chance of being killed was 71%. Not that bombers were helpless. A B-17 carried 4 tons of bombs and 1.5 tons of machine gun ammo. The US 8th Air Force shot down 6,098 fighter planes, 1 for every 12,700 shots fired.

Germany’s power grid was much more vulnerable than realized. One estimate is that if just 1% of the bombs dropped on German industry had instead been dropped on power plants, German industry would have collapsed.

Generally speaking, there was no such thing as an average fighter pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a passenger on a cargo plane.

It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th found with a tracer round to aid in aiming. That was a mistake. The tracers had different ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were hitting the target, 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet, the tracers instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo. That was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and their loss rate go down.

When allied armies reached the Rhine, the first thing men did was pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had himself photographed in the act).

German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but it wasn’t worth the effort.

A number of air crewmen died of farts. (ascending to 20,000 ft. in an un-pressurized aircraft causes intestinal gas to expand 300%!)

Germany lost 40-45% of their aircraft during World War 2 to accidents

The Russians destroyed over 500 German aircraft by ramming them in midair (they also sometimes cleared minefields by marching over them). “It takes a brave man not to be a hero in the Red Army”. - Joseph Stalin

The average German officer slot had to be refilled 9.2 times

The US Army had more ships that the US Navy.

The German Air Force had 22 infantry divisions, 2 armor divisions, and 11 paratroop divisions. None of them were capable of airborne operations. The German Army had paratroops who WERE capable of airborne operations.

When the US Army landed in North Africa, among the equipment brought ashore were 3 complete Coca Cola bottling plants.

84 German Generals were executed by Hitler

Among the first “Germans” captured at Normandy were several Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight for the German Army until they were capture by the US Army.

The Graf Spee never sank, The scuttling attempt failed and the ship was bought by the British. On board was Germany’s newest radar system.

One of Japan’s methods of destroying tanks was to bury a very large artillery shell with on ly the nose exposed. When a tank came near the enough a soldier would whack the shell with a hammer. “Lack of weapons is no excuse for defeat.” – Lt. Gen. Mataguchi

Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 US and Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska. 21 troops were killed in the fire-fight. It would have been worse if there had been Japanese on the island.

The MISS ME was an unarmed Piper Cub. While spotting for US artillery her pilot saw a similar German plane doing the same thing. He dove on the German plane and he and his co-pilot fired their pistols damaging the German plane enough that it had to make a forced landing. Whereupon they landed and took the Germans prisoner. It is unknown where they put them since the MISS ME only had two seats.

Most members of the Waffen SS were not German.

Air attacks caused 1/3 of German Generals' deaths

By D-Day, the Germans had 1.5 million railway workers operating 988,000 freight cars and used 29,000 per day

During the Japanese attack on Hong Kong, British officers objected to Canadian infantrymen taking up positions in the officer’s mess. No enlisted men allowed!

By D-Day, 35% of all German soldiers had been wounded at least once, 11% twice, 6% three times, 2% four times and 2% more than 4 times

Germany lost 136 Generals, which averages out to be 1 dead General every 2 weeks
Kak se meni čini ovdje su najviše popušili korenaci pa ti su stalno zarobljavani
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Old 26.05.2008., 04:03   #40
Meni su isto najbolji Koreanci
ako je to glupost onda je to najbolja glupost.
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