AK-47 vs M-16

[ljiga]

AmADin_gospo kaže:

gledaj, opet ponavljam, M-16 se ne koristi več 20 godine u USA nego verzije M4A1, M4A2 i M4A3, pouzdanost je porasla u monogome od "vijetnamke" M-16ke

Tu te moram ispraviti.
M-16 se i proizvodi i koristi u vojsci SAD-a, naravno novije verzine A-2, A-3 ili koja je već zadnja, mnogo usavršenije od starih vjetnamskih primjeraka.
M4 je naziv za karabin, skraćenu verzija m-16, nasljednik Colt-Commando-a.
Zbog kompaktnosti koriste ga specijalne postrojbe, a mislim da je popularan i među običnim vojnicima.

[Roy]

AmADin_gospo kaže:

ovo je prava THE PUŠKA M.48 tz. Tanđara koja obori slona na dupe na 500 metara

Ako se ne varam Mauser mod 1898, rađen sa ciljem da na udaljenosti od 2000m može oboriti jahaća ili konja (ili oboje ), zato su tanđare i imale ciljnik do 2k iako u modernijoj praksi to baš i nije puno znaćilo.

[Josey_Wales]

ovo je prava THE PUŠKA M.48 tz. Tanđara koja obori slona na dupe na 500 metara

1000m hmmm... sa PPU municijom ne znam ali sa RWS-ovom ili Speerovom ide ali samo zescim snajperistima... Normalni 7.92×57mm PPU gadja 650m-700m... Pravi snajperisti koriste .300 Winchester Magnum ili jaci Ultra magnum, dok bogatije zemlje daju mozda najbolji za sada .338 Lapua Magnum...

ja bih se ipak odlucio za original Mauser Kar98K ipak je to svabo...

[Manaslu11]

AmADin_gospo kaže:

ovo je prava THE PUŠKA M.48 tz. Tanđara
pokazali se veoma dobro u odbrani sarajeva, pogotovo s montiranom optikom...

Kad već spominješ Bosnu i tandžare…

http://www.texastradingpost.com/yugo...m48sniper.html

A američki spelling je legendaran –

«Tahn jara»

[AmADin_gospo]

ljiga kaže:

Tu te moram ispraviti.
M-16 se i proizvodi i koristi u vojsci SAD-a, naravno novije verzine A-2, A-3 ili koja je već zadnja, mnogo usavršenije od starih vjetnamskih primjeraka.
M4 je naziv za karabin, skraćenu verzija m-16, nasljednik Colt-Commando-a.
Zbog kompaktnosti koriste ga specijalne postrojbe, a mislim da je popularan i među običnim vojnicima.

pogledaj malo slike koje sam gore postavio, M-16 puška se nekoristi več 20 godina nego njene podverzije koje su sasvim drugaćije puške, Ak-47 se nije mjenjala 60 godina, možda nekih 5% i ti uglavnom u kundaku i ručki za držanje
reči da se M-16 još koristi je isto ko da si rekao da VW još pravi golfove I... iako su golf I i golf V golfovi, svjetlosna je godina razlike među njima

M-16ke se sad slobodno prodavaju po radnjama kao lovačko oružje i tu još jedino imaju prolaza jer su precizne i jer lovci ne rafalaju po divljači...

Roy kaže:

Ako se ne varam Mauser mod 1898,

naravno, to nisam osporio, ali s obzirom da su mauzeri bili u muzeju...

Josey_Wales kaže:

Pravi snajperisti koriste .300 Winchester Magnum ili jaci Ultra magnum, dok bogatije zemlje daju mozda najbolji za sada .338 Lapua Magnum...

da smo imali McMillan-e, koristili bi ih a pošto smo bili ogranićeni s opremom... tanđara je bila snajper "numero uno"

[ljiga]

AmADin_gospo kaže:

pogledaj malo slike koje sam gore postavio, M-16 puška se nekoristi več 20 godina nego njene podverzije koje su sasvim drugaćije puške, Ak-47 se nije mjenjala 60 godina, možda nekih 5% i ti uglavnom u kundaku i ručki za držanje

Uz pouzdanost, ipak jedan od glavnih razloga zašto ruska vojska i dalje u velikim količinama koristi AK-47 i nije potpuno prešla na AK-74 ili ekstenzivnije počela koristiti AN-94 je ekonomski.

AmADin_gospo kaže:

reči da se M-16 još koristi je isto ko da si rekao da VW još pravi golfove I... iako su golf I i golf V golfovi, svjetlosna je godina razlike među njima

Puška koja se danas proizvodi i koristi se zove i dalje M-16.
Zadnja verzija je A4.
Isto kao što se Golf V i dalje zove Golf, iako nema veze sa Golfom I.

[Il Bestione]

Ne bih bas rekao da su M16 kao golfovi tj. da je razlika tako velika.
Danasnje M16A4 su kao i danjasnje verzije stare AK47ice. Imaju isti stari mehanizam M16ke koji je poboljsan da se sto manje prlja, zaglavljuje i grije. Poboljsan im je nisan i sve one mounting platforme, odnosno oni nastavci na koje se stavlja optika, bacaci granata i one kratke sacme. Da bi se mogla staviti nocna optika pa je zamjeniti po danu i slicno (isto kao sto je novi FAMAS G2 ima STANAG sanzere pa moze primiti i ove od M16ke ). Ali to je isti stari dizajn, odnosno to bi bilo kao da u golf 1 ubacis sve iz petice ili bar neke dijelove

I M4 Carbine koriste dizajn od stare AR-15 koja je ustvari pod imenom M16 usla u prodaju. Prva puska kao sto Basta rece (gledao je isti dokumentarac ) koja je imala kundak u ravnini sa cijevi pa je pod full auto modu pucala pravo a ne kao M1 carbine koja je nakon 3 metka u auto modu pucala nebu pod oblake.

[pinokiop]

AmADin_gospo kaže:

reči da se M-16 još koristi je isto ko da si rekao da VW još pravi golfove I... iako su golf I i golf V golfovi, svjetlosna je godina razlike među njima

OPROSTITE kaj upadam u raspravu, ali nisam izdrzao, VW još uvijek u Latinskoj Americi proizvodi golf 1

[AmADin_gospo]

ljiga jarane, ja mislim da je autor mislio na M-16ku tj vjetnamku, koju kalaš ubjedljivo vodi u svim segmentima osim u preciznosti preko 250-300 metara, dok se ta prednost umnogome smanjila i skoto iznivelisala s novim modelima,

znači poredimo puške iz 60-ih i 70-ih godina a ne pušku iz 47-e godine i pušku koja je napravljena prije 10-ak godina (M4A1)

bolje preformanse se postižu s večim brojem preciznih i u mikron projektovanih i ugrađenih dijelova, što naravno povečava šansu da se isti sklop prije pokvari...

više djelova - više problema

pogledaj samo kalaša toliko lufta ima da možeš stavit 10 deka zemlje u njega i opet da ti nesmeta pri pokretanju sklopa

[Kontraktnik]

Ruski Kalašnjikov se razlikuje po prigušivaču plamena

[JoZ@]

srbijanka bi bila skoro pa najbolji kalas da je:
bila tvrdo brunirana ko madarski
i imala kromiranu cjev
i da joj kundak vremenom nije dobijo lufta

meni se u Dom. ratu najbolje pokazal kalas tkz. litvanka
ta puska ima plastican kundak (po tome bi oni koje neznaju trebali znat na koju mislim)

nosil sam i rumunjuku
svaki treci metak na pojedinacno nije ubacivala u cjev
sreca u nesreci prebacimna rafalno i radi normalno
tak sam se naucil i pucat po metak 2 il 3
vise ni jedan kalas nisam stavljal na pojedinacno

srbijanku sam nosil najvise vremena
zamjerke sam vec napisal

nakon nje
neki kalas navodno poljske proizvodnje
imo je bocno sklopiv kundak
precizan za nepovjerovat
kromirana cjev
samo vanjska zastita nije bila bas nes pa sam ga moro cesce premazat
a cjev kad sam imal vremena
provuces krpu i ona skoro skroz cista



p.s. samo da dodam da srbijanka ima jednu veliku prednost nad ostalim kalasima
a to je mogucnost ispaljivanja tromblona
(mislim bila je onda dok jos nije bilo bacaca koji se mogu montirat na kalas)

[yamabushi]

Netko je napisao da je AK-47 od M-16 bolji za blisku borbu. Koliko znam, M16 brže ispaljuje od kalaša prema tome nemora biti da je ovaj baš u tome toliko bolji.
AK 47 ima slab i zastario nišan te zatvarač koji kada lupi se u tihoj noći čuje na 100 m..

[ljiga]

AmADin_gospo kaže:

ljiga jarane, ja mislim da je autor mislio na M-16ku tj vjetnamku, koju kalaš ubjedljivo vodi u svim segmentima osim u preciznosti preko 250-300 metara, dok se ta prednost umnogome smanjila i skoto iznivelisala s novim modelima,

znači poredimo puške iz 60-ih i 70-ih godina a ne pušku iz 47-e godine i pušku koja je napravljena prije 10-ak godina (M4A1)

Slažem se, što se godine proizvodnje tiće, pravedno bi bilo ako uspoređujemo AK-47, da ga uspoređujemo sa ako ne prvom verzijom M16, onda sa prvom verzijom M16 koja je radila koliko toliko kako spada.

PS M4A1 nije nasljednik M16 nego karabin verzija. M-16 se i dalje proizvodi istovremeno sa M4.
Zadnja verzija M16:


M4 je za M16 ono što je AKS-74U za standardni kalaš:

[AmADin_gospo]

ljiga burazeru, mislimo isto ali ne govorimo isto...

M-16 koja se koristila u vijetnamu... prva M16 se NE PROIZVODI i iz upotrebe je definitivno izašla prije 20 godina, to je ova puška na slici pored kalaša

poslje nje su došle druge, isto M-16ke ali nisu identične nego poboljšane verzije A1, A2 A3.. .imaju istu kodnu oznaku, M-16 ali nisu identične pušci koja se koristila prije 35 godina
evo ovde malo stručnog poređenja
http://www.ak-47.us/AK-47vsM-16.php
M-16 (vjetnamka - ima je u muzejima i u africi među plemenima... pokoja)


M-16 M4A1

M-16 M4A2

M-16 M4A3

M-16 M4A4


AK-47 (slika iz 1952 godine)

Ak-47 (slika iz 2005-6e godine)

[ljiga]

M16 i M4 su dva različita modela puške. Proizvode se istovremeno za različite potrebe. M16 je jurišna puška, M4 je karabin. U ostalome se slažemo.

Zadnja verzija M4


Zadnja verzija M-16



Isto kao što je Ak-74 jurišna puška a AKSU karabin.

Ak-74


AKSU

[Josey_Wales]

Ovo mi se cini super puskom samo ima sugavi kalibar 5.56×45 mm, Zastava
M90, eh da je bar u 7.62×39mm, postoji slicna M77AB1(preklopni kundak) ali pak u prevelikom kalibru 7.62×51mm(.308)... Pored ovoga izbora mislim da ne bih trosio lovu na preskupe H&K ili FAMAS po mom misljenju "prerazvikane" puske... Eto fali jos samo model M90 serijal u 7.62×39mm kalibru i izbor bi bio odlican... Moze se od Kalasa cudo napravit kada se hoce i ima love...

M90-AR, 5.56×45mm(sa punim kundakom)



M90A-AR, 5.56×45mm(sa preklopnim kundakom)



M77B1, 7.62×51mm(U.S. .308) sa punim kundakom



M77AB1, 7.62×51mm(U.S. .308) sa preklopnim kundakom



Dodaci(opcionalni):

Bacac granata 40mm:



Prikljucak za tromblonske mine(serijski):



"Na zahtev kupca, svi članovi ove familije(M77) oružja mogu imati postolje optičkog nišana, a komplet može da sadrži i nosač, optičke nišane ili noćne nišane."

Prateći pribor:
- 4 rezervna okvira kapaciteta 30 metaka
- Šipka za čišćenje
- Pribor za čišćenje
- Kantica za ulje
- Pojačnik trzaja za manevarsku municiju
- Torbica za prateći pribor
- Kanap za čišćenje
- Remnik
- Noz(bajunet) kao sastavni dio kompleta

Standardni M70B1,7.62×39mm sa punim kundakom



M70AB2, 7.62×39mm sa preklopnim kundakom i optikom



Kratki automat M92, 7.62×39mm(valjda kopija Krinkova)



Kratki automat M85, 5.56×45mm(valjda kopija Krinkova)

[ljiga]

Ovo je meni jedna vrlo zanimljiva puška, i koliko znam jedini slučaj da je netko od kalašnjikova išao raditi snajper.
Jugoslavenski M76:

[Josey_Wales]

Pa bilo je i prije M76, mislim da je to SVD Dragunov koji se mislim bazira na istom Kalasnikovom konceptu... Ali bas bih volio vidjeti M90A u kalibru 7.62×39mm na testu, jel zna itko da li se to proizvodi???...

[AmADin_gospo]

citat wikipedije:
_____________________
M16

An early M16 rifle: note "duckbill" flash suppressor, triangular grip, and the lack of forward assist and brass deflector

Variant originally adopted by the USAF. This was the first M16 adopted operationally. This variant had triangular handguards, a three-pronged flash suppressor, and no forward assist. Bolt carriers were originally chrome plated and slick-sided, lacking any notches for a forward assist. Later, the chrome plated carriers were dropped in favor of Army issued notched and parkerized carriers. The Air Force continues to operate these weapons and upgrades them as parts wear or break and through attrition.

[edit]
XM16E1 and M16A1

The prototype army-version, XM16E1, was essentially the same weapon as the M16 with the addition of a forward assist. The M16A1 was the finalized production model. To address issues raised by the XM16E1's testing cycle, a "bird-cage" flash suppressor replaced the XM16E1's three-pronged flash suppressor, which was too easy for foreign material to get into and which caught on twigs and leaves. After numerous problems in the field, numerous changes were made. Cleaning kits were developed and issued; barrels with chromed chambers and later fully-chromed bores were introduced. The number of malfunctions due to fouling and corrosion declined and later troops were generally unfamiliar with early problems. A rib was built into the side of the receiver on the XM16E1 to help prevent accidentally pressing the magazine release button when closing the ejection port cover and perhaps also to protect the receiver from wear from the cover hitting up against it. This rib was later extended on production M16A1s to help in preventing the magazine release from inadvertently being pressed. The bolt cam pin and the hole it rides in the bolt were tapered to prevent the bolt from being inserted upside down (creating a failure to fire). The M16A1 remains in service in extremely limited numbers, mainly as a training aid. It has, however, been widely exported abroad.

[edit]
M16A2

New rear sight, brass deflector and forward assist of M16A2

A Marine with an M16A2 on a training exercise at Camp Baharia, Iraq, 2004. An M1 Abrams tank is in the background

The development of the M16A2 rifle was originally requested by the United States Marine Corps as a result of the USMC's combat experiences in Vietnam with the M16 and M16A1.[1] The Marines were the first branch of the US Armed Forces to adopt the M16A2 in the early/mid 1980's with the US Army following suit in adopting the M16A2 in the late 1980s. Modifications to the M16A2 were more extensive. In addition to the new rifling, the barrel was made with a greater thickness in front of the front sight post to resist bending in the field, allow for cooling between shots, and the stepped-up design allowed use of the M203 grenade launcher to be used with the weapon.[1] The front sight was now a square post with 4 detent positions in order to refine the sight picture. A new adjustable rear sight was added, allowing the rear sight to be dialed in for specific range settings between 300 and 800 meters to take full advantage of the ballistic characteristics of the new SS109 rounds and to allow windage adjustments without the need of a tool or cartridge.[1] The flash suppressor was again modified, this time to be closed on the bottom so it would not kick up dirt or snow when being fired from the prone position, and acting as a recoil compensator.[6] The front grip was modified from the original triangular shape to a round one, which better fit smaller hands and could be fit to older models of M16s.[1] The new handguards were also symmetrical so that armories didn't need separate left and right spares. The handguard retention ring was angled to make it easier to install and uninstall the handguards.[1] The pistol grip adds a notch for the middle finger and more texture to enhance the grip. The buttstock was lengthened by 5/8 inches.[1] The new buttstock is ten times stronger than the original due to advances in polymer technology since the early 1960s. Original M16 stocks were made from fiberglass-impregnated resin; current stocks are engineered from DuPont Zytel glass-filled thermoset polymers. The new stock includes a fully textured polymer buttplate for better grip on the shoulder, and retains a panel for accessing a small compartment inside the stock often used for storing a basic cleaning kit. The heavier bullet reduces muzzle velocity from 3,200 feet per second (975 m/s), to about 3,050 feet per second (930 m/s). The A2 also uses a faster twist rifling to allow the use of a trajectory-matched tracer round. A spent case deflector was incorporated into the upper receiver to prevent casings from striking left-handed users.[1]

The action was also modified, replacing the fully-automatic setting with a three-round burst setting.[1] When using a fully-automatic weapon, poorly trained troops often hold down the trigger and "spray" when under fire. The U.S. Army concluded that three-shot groups provide an optimum combination of ammunition conservation, accuracy and firepower. There are mechanical flaws in the M16A2 burst mechanism. The trigger group does not reset when the trigger is released. If the user releases the trigger between the second and third round of the burst, for example, the next trigger pull would only result in a single shot. Even in semi-automatic mode, the trigger group mechanism affects weapon handling. With each round fired, the trigger group cycles through one of the three stages of the burst mechanism. Worse, the trigger pull at each of these stages may vary as much as 6 lbs. in pressure differential, detracting from accuracy.

All together, the M16A2s new features added weight and complexity to the M16 series. Critics also point out that neither of the rear sight apertures is ideally sized. The smaller aperture was described as being too small, making quick acquisition of the front sight post difficult; and the larger aperture was described as being too large, resulting in decreased accuracy. To make matters worse, the rear sight apertures are not machined to be on the same plane. In other words, the point of impact changes when the user changes from one aperture to the other. The rear sight's range adjustment feature is rarely used in combat as soldiers tend to leave the rear sight on its lowest range setting: 300 meters. Despite criticism, a new rifle was needed both to comply with NATO standardization of the SS109 (M855) and to replace aging Vietnam era weapons in the inventory.

[edit]
M16A3

The M16A3 was a fully-automatic variant of the M16A2 adopted in small numbers around the time of the introduction of the M16A2, primarily by the U.S. Navy for use by the SEALs. It features a Safe-Semi-Auto (S-1-F) trigger group like that of the M16A1.

Some confusion continues to exist regarding the M16A3. It is often described as the fully-automatic version of the M16A4. Descriptions of the M16A3 that claim that it shares the M16A4's Picatinny rail are incorrect. This misunderstanding most likely stems from the usage of the A2 and A3 designations by Colt and other manufacturers of weapons before the official adoption of the M16A4. Colt used the "A3" designation in the hopes of winning military contracts as they also did with the terms, "M4" and "M5."

[edit]
M16A4

New M16A4

The M16A4, now standard issue for frontline U.S. Marine Corps and some U.S. Army units, replaces the combination fixed carry handle/rear iron sight with a MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rail, allowing for the rifle to be equipped with a carry handle and/or most military and consumer scopes or sighting systems. Most of the U.S. Marine Corps' M16A4s are equipped with a Knight's Armament Company M5 RAS handguard, allowing vertical grips, lasers, tactical lights, and other accessories to be attached. U.S. Army M16A4s also often feature the KAC M5 RAS. In U.S. Army Field Manuals, M16A4s fitted with the RAS are sometimes referred to as M16A4 MWS or Modular Weapon System. This model retains the 3-round burst mode of the M16A2.

[ljiga]

Josey_Wales kaže:

Pa bilo je i prije M76, mislim da je to SVD Dragunov koji se mislim bazira na istom Kalasnikovom konceptu...

Slični koncept, sličan položaj plinske komore (ili kako to već nazivamo).
Ali M76 je maltene produženi AK-47.