Amerikanac u Zagrebu. Imam malo problema boravištom i trebam malo pomoći. (Na engleskom)

[StevaGaleb]

Ispričivam se zbog engleskog, međutim samo mogu pisati jasno na mom materinskom jeziku i ova je tema važna.

I don't even know where to start with this. This is going to be VERY long, but I really, really, really need some help here.

I have been in Croatia on and off since 2016. I take Croatian language courses at the filozofski fakultet in Zagreb and love this place to death. I intend to stay here.

In case you didn't know, Americans can visit Croatia for up to 90 days without a visa, as long as they register themselves at a police station within 48 hours of arriving in the country (Americans staying at hotels or hostels are exempt from this rule). I entered Croatia in September of 2016 and stayed at a hostel in Zagreb. I eventually got an apartment, enrolled in a Croatian course, and got privremeni boravak valid until after the exam period. Everything's going smooth so far.

I renewed the privremeni boravak for one more semester without any significant problems. This one was valid until October. During this time I had made up my mind that I will continue studying Croatian for another year until I am at a high enough level to enroll in a faculty here, get a proper student's visa, and eventually live here.

Fast forward to October I enroll in another semester of Croatian and go to the MUP to renew my privremeni boravak when I am hit with some unexpected news. Americans and most other foreigners are unable to extend their privremeni boravak further than a year without a valid reason (like studying as a proper student at a faculty, having a job, Croatian wife, etc.). My course lasted until February, but they could only extend my privremeni boravak to December 5th. Not to worry though, they told me, as I was informed by multiple personnel at the MUP in Zagreb that I can simply leave Croatia before my boravak expires (December 4th, for example) and re-enter after (on December 6th, for example), and I would automatically be on my standard American 90-day visa-free tourist stay again. This was good news to me as it meant I would have enough time to finish my semester and then look into other ways of getting stay in Croatia. I knew it would be hard because I technically won't qualify for a student's visa until I am actually enrolled in a faculty, and Americans can't get work visas without diplomas (which is a problem since I want to get my diploma here), but I was optimistic I would find a solution.

My course ended a few weeks back, and with about 30-40 days left on my 90 days I left the country for a while and took a trip to Slovenia with my girlfriend. I arrived back about 40 hours ago as of writing this. I went to the MUP yesterday to see what options I had in getting any kind of boravak in Croatia so that I could take one last semester of Croatian and have enough time to take all my prijemni ispiti and all that when the time came to enroll.

That's the backstory. I hope you're all with me so far. I know this isn't the most exciting shit, but these are the facts of the case.

________________________________________

When I got to the MUP, I mainly just wanted information about what documents I'd need for a student's visa when the time came. I got to the šalter for foreigners and gave them my passport. The lady there started looking through my file. Here's where things go wrong. She informed me that I was actually in violation of the law on foreigners in Croatia because I did not register myself with a Croatian police station within 48 hours of entering Croatia, when I had re-entered Croatia after my boravak had expired some time around January. So I had been in Croatia unregistered from about January to February. I had never been informed that I would have to register myself again and had merely been following the instructions given to me by other MUP employees at that same šalter. I figured there was nothing to register, as I have an (expired) Croatian ID with an OIB and my address registered on it. I am not staying at a hotel or hostel but at my apartment, the same address I've always been at. She said I needed to re-register that address after entering. She went to talk to her superior about my case to inquire about whether I'd have to pay some fine/penalty.

That fucking sucks, especially since I was just doing what they'd told me to do at the MUP, but alright. I waited. She came back about 10 minutes later. She told me that I probably didn't have to pay a fine because I had just re-entered Croatia again (from Slovenia) 24 hours ago, and that I could register myself there. I was relieved to hear that. I was asking her a few more questions about getting boravak, and she said that she was unsure what would happen if I registered myself in terms of how many days I could stay in Croatia. I had already spent about 50-60 days in Croatia since my boravak expired on my tourist-stay, and she said that registering again now would either give me a fresh 90 days or a 100% legal 30-40 days leftover from my tourist stay. It was a very complicated situation, so she told me she had to talk to another colleague about it and that I should come back in 20 minutes.

So I come back 20 minutes later and I can tell she has really bad news. She tells me this first:

I can reapply for privremeni boravak on June 2nd, 2018.

This is good news. If I theoretically got another 90 days visa-free stay in Croatia, I could basically wait until June 2nd and get a new privremeni boravak. That would give me enough time to file all my documents, take my tests, and enroll in university. At that point I could get a student's visa. This was good news.

Then came the bad. Apparently, after my privremeni boravak expired I was required to spend 3 months outside the country before I could re-enter visa-free as an American 'tourist.' She plainly told me that she was completely unaware of this until now. She said I was technically in the country illegally, so they couldn't register me there that day. She also told me that if the police noticed me it could mean paying penalties for each day spent in Croatia since the expiry of my visa, as well as possibly receiving a ban from Croatia for anywhere as long as 3 months to 3 years.

So fuck. That would honestly fuck up my life beyond measure, seeing as I've already invested nearly two years in moving here, learning the language, and trying to study here. I really can't afford to delay my studies another year, let alone 3, and I simply don't have the support base in Europe to turn to if I get kicked out of what is effectively my home, and very little in America to rely on.

The lady told me that originally I would have been able to re-enter Croatia by March 5th and register then for 90 days. But she said that now I have to factor in each day I've spent in Croatia and now I shouldn't technically enter until something like May.

None of this makes sense though. First of all, if I weren't allowed in Croatia after my visa expired, why the fuck wasn't I turned back at the border? They took my passport, ran it through their computer, and had nothing to say about it. I was let in under the impression I was doing nothing illegal (and doing so on the instructions of the MUP in Zagreb no less!). I even left Croatia again in the meanwhile for Slovenia, and then re-entered again without any problems. How the hell is that my fault that the border guards aren't doing their job and telling me I'm not allowed in Croatia? Why should I be penalized for that? When I brought this up with the lady at the šalter she told me that it's basically at the discretion of the border guard. Any one of them could have apparently chosen to deny my entry, or in the case of my departure, informed me of my illegal stay and handed out some penalties to me. I asked her whether I should leave Croatia that very day and she told me I probably should, but even then I may be stopped at the border and given the same penalties. That's her claim.

The second thing that doesn't make sense is this random date by which I will be allowed to register myself again in Croatia as a tourist. So apparently because my boravak expired December 5th, I was supposed to come back 3 months later on March 5th and register then. But since I have been in Croatian for about 50 days, that date would be moved 50 days later too. That doesn't even make sense, because I'm technically not even supposed to be in Croatia in the first place. How could my status as an illegal alien be accounted for in their policy so that it would stipulate a delay in me registering a legal stay? But whatever, again that's her claim, and by her own words she wasn't even aware of this policy until she asked about my case.

So I am in a bit of an unwinnable situation here. I'm in Croatia illegally, despite being processed and granted entry at two separate land borders without issue. I've been informed that trying to leave could result in penalties as well as possible prohibitions on future entries into the Republic of Croatia, but also that I must leave so that I can re-enter on a legal date to register myself as a foreigner. That magic date is apparently subject to change based on the amount of time I spend in Croatia illegally, but it's theoretically March 5th.

So I am trying to make a plan here. I don't want to go to a police station to register myself from my trip to Slovenia in case they pick up on my status and fuck me right there. If I go to a hostel for the night it would technically register me automatically, and that may be a responsible thing to do, but it doesn't change much in the long run. I'm at my apartment for now trying to think up a way out of this.


TL;DR: Baš sam se sjebao.

[sivkić]

Nađi prevodioca da ti tu kobasicu napiše na hrvatskom.

[kradljivac]

StevaGaleb kaže:

None of this makes sense though.

Gle frende, naletio si na salterusu koja uglavnom nema pojma sta radi i vecina su takve. Pogotovo po ministarstvima i drzavnim upravama gdje se poslovi dobivaju preko veze. Neke informacije koje ti je dala mozda su tocne a mozda i nisu. Nema veceg zla na ovm svijetu od nekompetentnih hrvatskih salterusa.

Pokusaj s nekim drugim. Ako vidis tu babu na salteru, odi kod druge. Lijepo joj objasni sto je i kako je i mozda ti se posreci. U svakom slucaju ako ti ona ne moze pomoci, zatrazi i mozda i dobijes appointment s njezinim managerom koji mozda zna i moze uciniti nesto vise.

Pronadji nekoga tko poznaje nekoga tko radi tam da ti to srede.

Sto se mene tice, ne izgleda da si prekrsio nekakve zakone a u imigracijskim procesima cesto se dogadjaju propusti, greske i cinjenja koja jesu protivna zakonu ali su honest mistakes. Kako ne vjerujem da je navala US drzavljana za imigraciju u HR velika, mislim da administrativna greska ne bi trebala prouzrokovati toliko problema.

Ne znam bi li ti u krajnjem slucaju mogao pomoci kakav odvjetnik vjest u pitanjima imigracije.

I malo off-topic, salter surfing je jedna od temeljnih vjestina koju svaki pravi Hrvat mora posjedovati. Tako da ne ocajavaj i cuvaj zivce.

Sretno.

[Darsey]

The laws in Croatia are so complicated, and change every so often.
You need a lawyer.

[Zek0slav]

I don't think moderators will allow this topic to stay here if you can't read or write in our language.
There are number of foreigners on www.reddit.com/r/croatia so maybe they can give you some advice.

One thing I am certain is that border guards perform only basic document checks since Croatia is in EU, and you came from Slovenia. As long as your papers were valid they didn't concern themselves about your status.

Did you call your embassy? Šalteruša might not be the best person to ask. There is a good chance you might not have to pay the penalty. Don't worry just now. Besides, how can you love this place and plan to live here if you haven't gone through the meat grinder that is Croatian bureaucracy.

[aaaaaaaa]

I am not sure how things are working now, since we are in EU?

Can't you just go again in Slovenia, and apply for tourist visa as American there? And with that visa you can enter Croatia again since we are both in EU, and there is only basic document control on borders?

And when that date you mention come that you can apply for "priveremeni boravak" in Croatia, you are applying like you were in Slovenia and you just came to Croatia and want to apply for "privremeni boravak"?

If they ask you why didn't you signed out first time, you just say you forgot when you were leaving country, i don't think they will fine you retroactively. Once i forgot to renew identity card for a full year, according to laws they should have fined me, and they didn't they just renew it.

And if you were from Iraq i would be worried, but since you are from USA, i don't think you will have too much trouble staying here somehow if you want.



Also fine is 500-900 euros if you are being here illegal, so it's not like you are going to pay millions. I think you should just work things out so you can apply legally when that date came, and i doubt that someone will fine you then.

[dden]

Welcome to the Republic of Croatia

with our hearts and full regards, we welcome you to our no sense standards. please be welcomed with full respect and give us more of your Make No Sene questions.

hope you will enjoy in our non-sense standards and will keep us informed about your future non-sense questions.

Sincerely,
your nonsense


ja znam kako kod nas puno tog nema smisla, ali iskreno ne znam da se puno i hrvata proslavilo s amarikancima opcenito.just folow what they ask, if u dont fit than leave and come again

[sivkić]

Darsey kaže:

The laws in Croatia are so complicated, and change every so often.
You need a lawyer.

Uopće nije kompliciranije od drugih država.ili ispunjavaš uvjete za nešto ili ne ispunjavaš.

Ne znam točno što amer želi i u čemu je točan problem.

[Darsey]

Ajd dobro, možda nije komplicirano, al je besmisleno .

Ne znam kak je u drugim državama, al ja u ovoj, moram nekim institucijama svake godine iznova dokazivat da živim tu di živim već prek 20 godina, i non stop im nosit potvrdu iz općine. Bez papira kod nas ništa.
A državljan sam ove zemlje, tu sam rođena , tu živim, samo sam se malo selila , i svaki put uredno prijavila .

Btw, neki zakoni se još uvijek mijenjaju svako malo jer se usklađuju s milijn i nekom EU direktivom. Bar je u mojoj struci tako.

Riječ "šalteruša" bi trebala postat standardna riječ u našem jeziku. (ako već nije )

[ZgSash]

sivkić kaže:

Uopće nije kompliciranije od drugih država.ili ispunjavaš uvjete za nešto ili ne ispunjavaš.

Ne znam točno što amer želi i u čemu je točan problem.

vidim, naputovao si se ti, al po kurcu

ne, kaj bi bilo komplicirano
samo npr. onaj prvi detalj: za nasu vizu ti treba 30 dan dok ju dobijes, od mnogih drugih zemalja to traje koliko ti treba do banke uplatiti lovu za vizu i vratiti se u ambasadu
sve ostale pizdarije, bolje da ne spominjem
reci cu samo da babica u mup-u te pozdravi s "a sad da vidimo kaj od papira fali"
i uvijek fali, ne pomaze ni mail od mup-a s popisom, ni ono kaj druga njezina kolegica kaze da treba - uvijek fali jos bar jedan papir

[sivkić]

Ameru ne treba viza za dolazak ni boravak do 90 dana a ako želi privremeni boravak zreba ispunit određene uvjete kao i svatko drugi iz trećih zemalja.šema volim vašu državu i tu bi bio ne prolazi nigdje.

A zemlja iz koje dolazi od tebe traži (samo za ulazak) potvrde da nikad nisi kažnjavan a traže da navedeš sve kazne čak i one za koje si i rehabilitiran.tako da ne znam tko je kompliciraniji.

Vidiš da sam se dobro naputovao al ne po kurcu nego po poznavanju materije.

Nije baba kriva jer je neki tovar u saboru nešto izglasao.

[ZgSash]

ameri se ponasaju kao prasci prema nama kad idemo k njima, to je istina
no to ne eskulpira nas s nasim setovima gluposti i vjecnih kompliciranja
i covjek je u biti dobro rekao: ako je negdje problem nisu ga ni trebali pustiti iz slovenije da ude u zemlju

[sivkić]

ZgSash kaže:

ako je negdje problem nisu ga ni trebali pustiti iz slovenije da ude u zemlju

ne baratam toliko dobro sa engleskim da bi točno znao što ga muči.

[ZgSash]

ovako, neki ameri koje sam znao su uredno znali doci, ostati 90 dana i onda na jedan dan ili tako nesto napraviti izlet u neku drugu zemlju i vratili se (tek toliko da u putovnici imaju izlaz i ulaz u zemlju)
i nitko im nije radio probleme, cak i kad se nisu javljali lokalnoj pu (sto je btw. jos jedna nasa glupost)
sad je covjek odradio nekaj na tu temu, vratio se uredno i onda ga je nasla salterusa prcati
cijela prica je u tome da kod nas dupe ne zna di je glava i obrnuto, a svi skupa kaj je i cemu sluzi informatika

naveo sam ranije koje sam pizdarije dozivjavao, usprkos tome kaj bih dan-dva-tri prije toga zatrazio i dobio sluzbenu informaciju

[kemik]

StevaGaleb kaže:

So I am in a bit of an unwinnable situation here.

No, you're not You just need to get yourself a decent lawyer, who's gonna walk into that police station, demand to see their boss, know the law a hundred times better than the boss and be able to sort things out for you

TL;DR: Baš sam se sjebao.

Yup. But people have gotten out of worse situations, and trust me, once you get yourself a decent lawyer, you will be able to get yourself out of that mess as well.

Reach out to as many expats as you possibly can, who are living in Croatia, get a recommendation for a lawyer who has dealt with similar situations before. You won't be able to solve it without expert help. You see how we're like the States that way, all you need is a good lawyer and you can solve anything

[manchild]

zašto čovjek ne zatraži pomoć Američkog veleposlanstva, ima na to pravo

[sivkić]

Bit će zato jer nije u pravu pa ne može tražit ni pomoć.

[spalatinaS]

manchild kaže:

zašto čovjek ne zatraži pomoć Američkog veleposlanstva, ima na to pravo

A sta ce mu rec u US embassy ?
US Embassy nam sluzi za produzit pasos ,ovjerit nesto za txu i to je sve .

[ZgSash]

manchild kaže:

zašto čovjek ne zatraži pomoć Američkog veleposlanstva, ima na to pravo

to bi bilo najgore moguce rjesenje, osim ako si optuzen za zlocine koji se kaznjavaju smrcu ili dugotrajnom robijom

[T-3000]

ZgSash kaže:

ameri se ponasaju kao prasci prema nama kad idemo k njima, to je istina
no to ne eskulpira nas s nasim setovima gluposti i vjecnih kompliciranja
i covjek je u biti dobro rekao: ako je negdje problem nisu ga ni trebali pustiti iz slovenije da ude u zemlju

Ovisi na koga naletiš na granici tj. na kakvog immigration officera, a i kako izgledaš. Ako si visok i plav u pravilu nema problema. Ako si neki garav i nosat i još imaš kakvo muslimansko ime, onda možeš očekivati i takav tretman. :no racism:

Inače nick od ovog tipa upućuje na trola.