Majka Tereza

[PRAVDA]

blejz,
ja sam to ranije procitao, na jednom formu, a objavile su neke novine (zaboravio sam koje, pa sam onda na brzinu pokusao net pretragom; izvinjavam se sto ne pogledah vise taj link)

[Blaise]

Pravda, sigurno imamo isti stav prema tom sajtu. OK sad, idemo dalje.

Na temu.

Cinjenica je da je Majka Terzija govorila o tami. I papa je to spomenuo u jednom govoru.
I to se moze tumaciti na svakave nacine.

Mozemo li promislit malo? O cemu je, zapravo, govorila?

Ne mislim da je bila opsjednuta.
Stovise, mislim da ce to shvatiti svaki vjernik. I covjek.
Mozemo li se barem pokusati u mislima staviti na njeno mjesto?

[PRAVDA]

tvoje, moje misljenje je irelevantno.
pitanje je da li je ona mislila o sebi da je ...
mnogi, cak i u sali kazu "demoni u nama",
ali to je ...
ukoliko postoji neki drugi entitet u coveku,
onda ja odmah pitam: a sta biva sa odgovornoscu?
ne znam, udaljio sam se teme o egzorcizmu kad se poce o filmu egzorcist.
sto se tice tame, ne razumem sta me pitas.

[TetovaChat]

Mother Teresa's Family Tree


From the October 27, 2003 issue: Everyone in the Balkans wants a piece of her.

by Stephen Schwartz
10/27/2003, Volume 009, Issue 07

OCTOBER 19 IS THE DAY the Roman Catholic Church will mark the beatification of Gonxhe Agnes Bojaxhiu, the Albanian woman known to the world as Mother Teresa. Beatification is the last step before canonization, or sainthood, and the occasion is one of celebration for Catholics around the world.

Others should celebrate with equal fervor. Mother Teresa offered an exceptional example of self-sacrifice for the betterment of others. The vocation of her Missionaries of Charity is to care for the poorest of the poor.

But Mother Teresa's beatification has provoked a bizarre controversy in the city of her birth, where two ethnic factions are fighting to claim her. Impenetrable though it may seem to outsiders, this little uproar illustrates the enduring bad blood between Slavs and Albanians--and shows why American peacekeepers, though they may soon be withdrawn from Bosnia-Herzegovina, must remain in Kosovo.

Mother Teresa was born in 1910 in the 2,000-year-old city of Skopje, then part of the Ottoman Empire. Today, Skopje is the capital of the Republic of Macedonia, a statelet of 2 million people that gained its independence in 1991 with the breakup of Yugoslavia. (Because the Greeks vehemently object to its use of the name Macedonia--which they consider their property; the father of Alexander the Great was Philip of Macedon--this small country joined the U.N. as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and is known in international-speak by the hideous handle "the FYROM.")

Macedonia--for which the French and Italians named a salad combining many vegetables or fruits chopped into little pieces--is nothing if not Balkanized. Its population is roughly 60 percent Slavs, most of them Orthodox Christians, some of them Muslims; and 40 percent other, of whom most are ethnic Albanians, most of them Muslims, about a fifth Roman Catholics, a few Orthodox. The rest of the "other" are Turks, Gypsies, Bulgarians, Serbs, and so on.

Mother Teresa came from an old Catholic Albanian family, in a part of the world that was Albanian before it was Slav, and Christian long before it was Muslim. (The Slavs arrived around 600 A.D.; Islam arrived with the Ottoman invader in the 14th century.) But late last summer, Macedonian Slavs began to question her ethnic identity, maintaining she was a Slav or even a Serb--anything but Albanian.

This exercise in celebrity ethnic cleansing came to a head in the plan to donate a statue of Gonxhe Agnes Bojaxhiu to the city of Rome, a copy of a statue already standing in Skopje. The inscription would identify Mother Teresa as a "daughter of Macedonia" in the Cyrillic script used by Macedonian Slavs. The Albanian language is written in the Latin alphabet.

Such gestures are charged in Macedonia. Only two years ago, an Albanian insurgency in the country was resolved by European intervention, with U.S. diplomatic backing, and Albanian cultural rights were finally recognized, at least on paper. Because most of them are Muslims, the Albanians have been alleged by fearmongers to be al Qaeda supporters. But this could hardly be further from the truth. Their Islam is culturally Ottoman and European, entirely accepting of pluralism and modernity. What's more, Albanians everywhere remain lovers of America, because of our rescue of their brethren in Kosovo in 1999 and, before that, our help extended repeatedly through the twentieth century to assure Albanian independence. Woodrow Wilson is a figure they revere. After September 11, some 5,000 Kosovar Albanians volunteered to fight alongside us in Afghanistan.

In the weird media debate that erupted in Macedonia over Mother Teresa, the specter of radical Islam was invoked. The New York Times added to the paranoia. In a piece that seemed to legitimize doubt about Mother Teresa's origins, reporter Ian Fisher wrote, "Mother Teresa was Roman Catholic, while most Albanians are Muslim, and this has opened a crack for speculation about Mother Teresa's actual ethnic roots." Fisher quoted various Slav Macedonians arguing that Mother Teresa's father was probably a Vlach. Americans have never heard of Vlachs, a small Balkan ethnic group speaking a language close to Romanian. Vlachs herd sheep and seldom come down from their mountain pastures.

Another argument trotted out by anti-Albanian forces was that because Ganxhe Bojaxhiu's brother had the first name "Lazar," the family may have been Serbian. Tsar Lazar was a noted 14th-century Serbian ruler. But Lazar was also the first name of some of the most famous Albanians of recent times, including Lazar Fundo, an early anti-Stalinist martyred by the Communists; Lazar Shantoja, a Catholic poet tortured and executed by the Marxist regime of Enver Hoxha in 1945; and Lazar Gusho, the greatest modern Albanian poet, whom the Communists allowed to live to the age of 88 only because he pretended to be crazy.

The family name Bojaxhiu belongs to none of these argumentative ethnic groups, but is a Turkish word meaning "dyer" or "painter." It also occurs among Sephardic Jews and Armenians, people who are neither Albanian, nor Slav, nor Muslim.

Albanians naturally reacted with indignation to the attempt to appropriate one of their slender list of global stars. Mother Teresa was among the few non-Communist Albanians famous outside the Balkans, along with the Belushi brothers. No Macedonian Slavs are famous outside their corner of the world, which must be why the Slavic Macedonians are so eager to claim Mother Teresa as one of their own.

In the end, the controversy killed the project, and the statue was never sent to Rome. So why should Americans care? Only because the absurdity of such quarrels shows how irritable Slavs and Albanians in the southern Balkan states remain with one another. Slav Macedonian politicians have been especially irresponsible in stirring the pot, as Albanians draw ahead in economic entrepreneurship. The moral of the story: It is unlikely these groups will accept very soon the ways of inter-ethnic civility.

By contrast, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croats, Serbs, and Muslims have largely moved on from their recent bloody wars, to an attitude supportive of peaceful development. U.S. troops can and should be withdrawn from Bosnian territory (with the added benefit of relieving pressure on the U.S. military at a time when it is stretched), though their withdrawal is impossible in Kosovo.

This week, as believers are honoring Mother Teresa, guns remain cocked in the land of her birth. And across the border to the north, in Kosovo, American soldiers are required to maintain ethnic peace--so that good Samaritans like the Missionaries of Charity can come to the aid of people in need without the slightest regard to ethnic background.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephen Schwartz is a member of the board of the Albanian Catholic Institute at the University of San Francisco

[pećina]

Članak
Pisma otkrivaju da je majka Terezija imala 40 godina sumnju u vjeru. Ono što bi ja izdvojio je ovaj dio

As her fame increased, her faith refused to return. Her smile, she said, was a mask.

"What do I labor for?" she asked in one letter. "If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true."

To je kršćanska logika, nema morala bez Boga. Ako nema Boga, čemu sve ovo i to vodi u nihilizam.

Često se ovakvo što projicira na ateiste, vjernici smatraju da je bez Boga nemoguće živjeti jer "Kako netko može misliti svojom glavom?" Iz ovoga mogu zaključiti da ateisti koji vode normalan život crpe svoj moral iz nekakvog bioetičkog morala ili općenito, iz poštovanja prema svom živom i neživom svijetu.

[Nemruth Dagi]

=pećina;9891203 Iz ovoga mogu zaključiti da ateisti koji vode normalan život crpe svoj moral iz nekakvog bioetičkog morala ili općenito, iz poštovanja prema svom živom i neživom svijetu.

Baš to poštovanje spram svega živog a onda i neživog svijeta stvara opozit religijskom moralu koji je isključiv a ujedno teži biti dominantan zbog svojeg apsolutizma i monopola koji je navodno baštinjen od boga samoga.
Majka Tereza dio je svijesti koji ne rješava uzrok takvog svijeta već samo njegovu posljedicu. Možemo joj se diviti zbog njenog angažmana oko toga i ništa više. Sve je isto kao i lani...

[Davor000]

Kako bismo se mogli divit ženi koja smatra kondome opasnije od AIDS-a?
Možemo samo reći da je bila pretjerano naivna.

[kokobill]

Pustimo sveticu nek mirno "spava".Sada, poslije njene smrti posezati ka nekim clancima nivoa zute stampe nije korektno.

[Veritaserum]

kokobill kaže:

Pustimo sveticu nek mirno "spava".Sada, poslije njene smrti posezati ka nekim clancima nivoa zute stampe nije korektno.

ma naravno, pustimo od strane ljudi proglashenu osobu svetom neka uziva u nepostojanju

[kokobill]

Veritaserum kaže:

ma naravno, pustimo od strane ljudi proglashenu osobu svetom neka uziva u nepostojanju

Dobro,nek si u prvu,al dajmo postivati umrle.To mozemo,jel tako?

[Veritaserum]

kokobill kaže:

Dobro,nek si u prvu,al dajmo postivati umrle.To mozemo,jel tako?

zasto?

[pećina]

Idete offtopic. Poanta je bila da vjernik ne osjeća da je nešto dobro zato što je dobro nego zato što to radi za Boga. Da li je takva osoba onda u duši dobra?

Uostalom, ako želite pričati o negativnim stranama majke terezije, ima tu materijala za posebnu temu.

[Davor000]

kokobill kaže:

Dobro,nek si u prvu,al dajmo postivati umrle.To mozemo,jel tako?

Ako tu spadaju Hitler, Staljin i ostali, onda može.

Činjenica je da je Majka Terezija primjer kršćanskog poimanja etike. Dakle, ako nešto ne činimo zbog Boga, onda je to uzaludno.

[svjetloisjena]

Majka Terezija je zasad proglašena blaženom, službeno će postati svetom kad protekne određen broj godina koliko Crkva propisuje za proglašenje nekoga svetim.

Bez obzira radilo se o ljudima neke vjere ili ateistima, agnosticima ili kako se sve ljudi nazivaju, svi koji imaju nekakav odnos prema našem veličanstvenom okruženju, vanjskom i unutarnjem, vidjeli Boga u svemu tome ili ne, dakle svi normalni ljudi koji prolaze kroz ovo naše iskustvo imaju periode sumnje u svom duhovnom razvoju koji mogu biti vrlo teški, mučni i dugotrajni.

Bl. majka Terezija neće biti proglašena svetom zato što je cijeloga života bila savršeno odana svojim idealima, bez tračka sumnje. Ne, samo ona zna kako je bilo s tim. No za razliku od mnogih drugih ona je svoje ideale uza sve sumnje koje su je možda i opsjedale, provodila u život na način koji je smatrala ispravnim, a mi sad možemo i po tome kopati i tražiti neispravnosti.

Meni je ovo dovoljno:

Nije važno

Čovjek je nerazuman, egocentričan.
Nije važno, ljubi ga.

Činiš li dobro, reći će da to radiš zbog sebičnih ciljeva.
Nije važno, čini dobro.

Ostvaruješ li svoje namjere, steći ćeš lažne prijatelje i istinske neprijatelje.
Nije važo, ostvaruj namjere.

Dobro koje činiš zaboravit će se sutra.
Nije važno, čini dobro.

Poštenje i iskrenost učinit će te ranjivim.
Nije važno, budi iskren i pošten.

Ono što si godinama gradio može biti uništeno u tren oka.
Nije važno, gradi.

Pomažeš li ljudima, ljutit će se.
Nije važno, pomozi im.

Daješ li svijetu najbolje od sebe, odbacit će te.
Nije važno, daj najbolje od sebe.

Majka Terezija

[crazy person]

pećina kaže:

Idete offtopic. Poanta je bila da vjernik ne osjeća da je nešto dobro zato što je dobro nego zato što to radi za Boga. Da li je takva osoba onda u duši dobra?

A čuj, ako je stvarno tako onda naravno da nije.

Nisu svi ljudi jednaki. Nekima je teško doći do bilo kakve vlastite ralizacije, a kamoli da će sami sebi izgraditi nekakav sustav moralnog ponašanja temeljen na logičkom razmišljanju, percepciji okoline i proučavanjem djela nekih, nazovimo ih, moralnih autoriteta.

Možeš se samo nadat da će takvima 'gluma dobrote' kad tad prijeći u pravu stvar, preko nekog oslanjanja na koncept Boga, a u isto vrijeme ih spriječiti da rade neke stvarno loše stvari.

[pećina]

crazy_person kaže:

A čuj, ako je stvarno tako onda naravno da nije.

Nisu svi ljudi jednaki. Nekima je teško doći do bilo kakve vlastite ralizacije, a kamoli da će sami sebi izgraditi nekakav sustav moralnog ponašanja temeljen na logičkom razmišljanju, percepciji okoline i proučavanjem djela nekih, nazovimo ih, moralnih autoriteta.

Možeš se samo nadat da će takvima 'gluma dobrote' kad tad prijeći u pravu stvar, preko nekog oslanjanja na koncept Boga, a u isto vrijeme ih spriječiti da rade neke stvarno loše stvari.

Čitao sam o teoriji da je religija u startu bila evolucijska prednost grupe, da je čuvala identitet, služila kao policija, etc.

Postavlja se drugo pitanje: da li je takvim osobama zapravo bolje da ih se ostavi u zabludi jer ako bi im oduzeli koncept moralnog autoriteta (e.g. Bog), ta bi se osoba mogla pretvoriti u nešto amoralno, mogla bi prijeći u nihilizam i apatiju?

[kokobill]

Veritaserum kaže:

zasto?

Iz postovanja prema umrlim.Bar toliko imas morala-etike.

[Veritaserum]

kokobill kaže:

Iz postovanja prema umrlim.Bar toliko imas morala-etike.

kakvog postovanja? zasto postivat umrle?

[Davor000]

Veritaserum kaže:

kakvog postovanja? zasto postivat umrle?

Poštuj Hitlera i Staljina!

[pećina]

kokobil, to su njena pisma. Zašto ne odgovoriš na moje pitanje i komentiratš moj zaključak. Ne idi offtopic previše