Natrag   Forum.hr > Društvo > Religija > Teologija i religijska praksa

Teologija i religijska praksa Religije/denominacije, teološka i ostala vjerska pitanja

Zatvorena tema
 
Tematski alati Opcije prikaza
Old 07.03.2014., 15:11   #41
Ne znam da li je posteno jer nije napisao nista sporno niti neocekivano osim sto ti se pamflet ne svidja, ali je svakako tvoja stvar i pravo zelis li prevodit ili ne
__________________
SMISAO ZIVOTA !!!
Beljki is offline  
Old 07.03.2014., 15:17   #42
Quote:
Beljki kaže: Pogledaj post
Ne znam da li je posteno jer nije napravio napisao nista sporno niti neocekivano osim sto ti se pamflet ne svidja, ali je svakako tvoja stvar i pravo zelis li prevodit ili ne
Kao što rekoh, zaletio sam se,
Možda da samo to radim u životu, možda bih se i prihvatio toga!
bio sam naivno brzoplet.
mislio sam da mogu previsoko pljunut pa sam sam sebe pljn'o u lice.
nema ni druge nago da obrišem lice i izvinem se

Izvinjavam se!
__________________
Milostivi; Poučava Kur'anu; Stvara Čovjeka; Poučava Bejjanu(objelodanjujućem govoru) (55:1-4)
MukaFFa is offline  
Old 07.03.2014., 19:23   #43
So ran away

Beljik

I knew MukaaFFA will run away even on lame excuses. So let it be so. As promised by weekend might be getting some more information about Ahmadija.
Ahmadija is offline  
Old 07.03.2014., 19:47   #44
translation of ahmadi propaganda

Quote:
Ahmadija kaže: Pogledaj post
No prolem we listen to all. Ahmadija slogan is "love for all hatred for none".
Shall reply all the raised points by this weekend. So please wait. Just to inform all of you Ahmadija is registered in Croatia. Has its office in Zagreb and is operating from Zagreb.
Samo da vas informišem da su ahmedije registrovane u Hrvatskoj. ima ured u Zg i operiše u Zg

Quote:
Majority of Muslim world does not consider this denomination as Muslims irrespective of the fact that Ahmadija believes in all Islamic rituals.
unatoč činjenici da ahmedije vjeruju u sve islamske rituale većina muslimanskog svijet ih ne smatra muslimanima.
Quote:
Same is probably the opinion of Muslims residing here in Croatia.
isto mišljenja vjerovatno vlada u CRO
Quote:
Only difference between Ahmadija and mainstream Muslims it believes the promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi has come.
jedina razlika je u tome što vjerujemo da je obećani MEsija i Imam Mehdi došao.
Quote:
As is practice and is evident from past religious history every messenger of God was rejected by the masses.
poslanici bo
iji su po pravilu bili odabačeni od mase
Quote:
Later through the acts of God though truth always prevailed.
kadnije si bili prihvaćeni
Quote:
Be it Moses A.S, Jesus A.S. or Muhammad (saw). So same is the case with founder of Ahmadija.Until now masses has rejected him.
bio on MOjsije, Isus ili Muhammed. isto je sa osnivačem ahmedija. Dosada mase su ga odbacivale
Quote:
Ahmadija is not a new religion.
ahgmedija nije nova religija
Quote:
Just the revival of actual teachings of Islam.
samo su ponovno oživljavanje islama.
Quote:
Appearance of promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi was foretold by Prophet of Islam and founder of Ahmadija based his claim on the prophecies of Holy Quran, Holy Bible and Islamic Hadith
ova mi reč nema baš smisla
POjava obećčanog Mesije i imama mehdija je prorečeno od proroka islama i osnivač ahmedija zasniva svoje tvrdnja na proročanstvima svetog Kur'ana, Svete Biblije i islamskog hadisa

Quote:
Take above as an appetizer and we shall discuss more and in detail this weekend including the points raised by MukaFFa.
uzmi ovo gore kao predjelo i mi ćemo diskutovati detaljkno ovog wikenda uključujući pitanja koje je postavio MukaFFa

u šta čisto sumanjam
__________________
Milostivi; Poučava Kur'anu; Stvara Čovjeka; Poučava Bejjanu(objelodanjujućem govoru) (55:1-4)
MukaFFa is offline  
Old 07.03.2014., 20:00   #45
certainly not a british

Quote:
Ahmadija kaže: Pogledaj post
It is good to know we have now referee also. Hope fair game will be played.
lijepo je znati da imamo sudiju. nadam se da će biti fer igra

Quote:
I am born Ahmadija. My grand father accepted the promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi.
rođen sam kao ahmedija, moj djed je prihvatio obećanog mesiju i imama Mehdija.
Quote:
However this does not mean I retained it blindly. Especially when whole Islamic world is against the community.
ovo ne znači da ovo slijedim slijepo. POsebno kada je cijeli islamski svijet protiv ove zjaednice( primjetiti ćete kako je odjednom većina muslimana postala cijeli islamski svijet op. prev./ you will notice how suddenly majority of muslims become whole islm wrld)
Quote:
So I made a deep probe and studied the books written by founder of Ahmadija.
doboko sam se zadubio u proučavanje knjiga napisanih od strane osnivača ahmedija
Quote:
All appeared to be extremely logical and true Islam.
sve se činilo ekstrmeno logično i činilo se kao pravi Islam.
Quote:
One special feature of community which attracts me most is the unique noble character of its members.
jedna posebnos ove zajednice je jedinstven plemenit karakter svojih članova.
Quote:
In its history of 124 years never ever any member of the community got the blame of involving in any unwanted activity.
i nikad nismo bili uključeni i neke neželjenje aktivnosti!
Quote:
It is purely reform movement with no political ambitions.
to je reformistički pokret bez političkih ambicija
Quote:
Its spiritual leaders have always st rived hard to raise the morals and ethics of the members of the community.
duhovne vođe stalno nastoje održati moralnost i etičnost članova.
Quote:
Establishment of living contact with God Almighty and good behaviour with other human beings are the main things the community spiritual leaders always preaches.
zivi kontakt sa Bogom i dobar odnos prema drugim živim bićima jesu glavne stvari koje o kojima stalno propovijedaju duhovne vođe

Quote:
All the activities of communities are financed by its members and no financial support is taken from any where.
sve aktivnosti se finasirjau od članova i nema finansijske potpore sa strane!
Quote:
Being member of the community I have experienced many times where God listens to my prayers.
Kao član zjadnice sam mnogo puta osjetio kako Bog sluša moje molitve.
Quote:
It has always been a source of inspiration in my life. The mere fact that one anonymous man makes a claim in 1889 in a remote village of India. Later his community prospers and now is present in 204 countries of the world with tens of millions of followers. What he says to mankind? Come and have living contact with God Almighty and be good to your fellow beings. Instead listening to this lively message the opponents just make wrong allegations against him and refute his claims.
I consider Croatian as great nation and to me this nation also deserves to be given the message of Ahmadija. Whether any one accepts it or not is not my problem. It is God who moulds the hearts of its creature. You never know there can be souls ready to take this message. Ahmadija very strongly believes on the ideology that there is no compulsion in religion and strictly follows it. Aim of Ahmadija is just to give the message. If any one is interested can visit its website, www.alislam.hr. On it links are given for Bosnian,German and English websites where dozen of books are available for those who really searching the truth.
ostatak kada budemmogao
__________________
Milostivi; Poučava Kur'anu; Stvara Čovjeka; Poučava Bejjanu(objelodanjujućem govoru) (55:1-4)
MukaFFa is offline  
Old 07.03.2014., 22:37   #46
Proganjaju ih u Pakistanu, Indoneziji, npr., pa se u tom smislu mogu stavit' na njihovu stranu (nešto poput Bahaja u Islamskoj republici Iran).

Al da su misionarski orijentirani , jesu.

Dalje.
Nije jasno o kojemu se pravcu ovdje radi. Jer, koliko mi je poznato, i oni su se podijelili na dvije grupe. Koju grupu zastupa ova tema ?

Takodjer, nejasno mi je otvaranje teme na jeziku na kojemu se osoba slabo, ili nikako, izražava. Osim ako se gleda kroz prizmu misionarenja. Onda postaje jasnije.

Za kraj.
Zanima me bi li moderatori bili jednako benevolentni da netko otvori temu pa krene pisat na francuskom, španjolskom, talijanskom, etc. o pripadnicima denominacije Maslinovog stabla, te svim ostalima iz znanih i neznanih denominacija ?
__________________
allahu akbar, al putinu rahbar
antilles is offline  
Old 08.03.2014., 04:26   #47
Mukaffa, čula sam se ja s Nicom.
Uglavnom, nije potrebno prevoditi, može ostati i na engleskom.
Jedino ako ti, ili netko drugi, baš hoće prevesti neke bitne dijelove, ne bi bilo loše. Ali nije obligatorno, i nemaš tu obvezu.
Meadow is offline  
Old 08.03.2014., 18:20   #48
Referee/Sudac

Quote:
Meadow kaže: Pogledaj post
Mukaffa, čula sam se ja s Nicom.
Uglavnom, nije potrebno prevoditi, može ostati i na engleskom.
Jedino ako ti, ili netko drugi, baš hoće prevesti neke bitne dijelove, ne bi bilo loše. Ali nije obligatorno, i nemaš tu obvezu.
Neka prijevod doći. Obećali ste da ćete se suditi za točnost sadržaja. Uvijek treba pridržavati obećanja.
Let the translation to come. You promised to be referee for the correctness of contents. One should always abide by the promise made.
Ahmadija is offline  
Old 08.03.2014., 19:59   #49
Neka prijevod doći; if somebody wants to translate, by all means.
However, nobody is obliged to do so, and the conversation can continue in English.
So there's nothing to worry about.
Meadow is offline  
Old 08.03.2014., 21:08   #50
Quote:
Ahmadija kaže: Pogledaj post
Neka prijevod doći. Obećali ste da ćete se suditi za točnost sadržaja. Uvijek treba pridržavati obećanja.
Let the translation to come. You promised to be referee for the correctness of contents. One should always abide by the promise made.

saturday is a weekend and we are avaiting for your answers...
oh maybe you think next weekend???
__________________
Milostivi; Poučava Kur'anu; Stvara Čovjeka; Poučava Bejjanu(objelodanjujućem govoru) (55:1-4)
MukaFFa is offline  
Old 08.03.2014., 21:20   #51
this is how i charmed a croatian borderman once

Quote:
Ahmadija says

I consider Croatian as great nation and to me this nation also deserves to be given the message of Ahmadija. Whether any one accepts it or not is not my problem. It is God who moulds the hearts of its creature. You never know there can be souls ready to take this message. Ahmadija very strongly believes on the ideology that there is no compulsion in religion and strictly follows it. Aim of Ahmadija is just to give the message. If any one is interested can visit its website, www.alislam.hr. On it links are given for Bosnian,German and English websites where dozen of books are available for those who really searching the truth.
prijevod: with MukaFFa comments in parenthesis
Smatram kako su hrvati velika nacija i za mene ovaj narod i zaslužuje da mu bude data poruka Ahmadija. Bilo tko ga prihvati ili ne nije moj problem. On je Bog koji oblikuje srca svojih bića. Vi ne možete znati može li duša biti spremna za ovu poruku. Ahmadija čvrsto stoji u uvjerenju da nema prisile u vjeri i strogo ga slijedi. Cilj Ahmadija je samo dati poruku. Ako je tko zainteresiran može posjetiti web stranicu, www.alislam.hr.

here I translated your declamation, are you ready to give concrete answers.

Here is another one:
After coming of Isa and Imam Mehdi muslims and christians are going to be one ummah. also hilafet will be reestablished.

abouc cca 120 yrs passed and there is still ummah of christians and ummah of muslimans, there is no hilafet. there is no unuque gidnace among muslims.

How is it possible???
__________________
Milostivi; Poučava Kur'anu; Stvara Čovjeka; Poučava Bejjanu(objelodanjujućem govoru) (55:1-4)
MukaFFa is offline  
Old 08.03.2014., 22:54   #52
Weekend and Reply/Vikend i Odgovori

Quote:
MukaFFa kaže: Pogledaj post
prijevod: with MukaFFa comments in parenthesis
Smatram kako su hrvati velika nacija i za mene ovaj narod i zaslužuje da mu bude data poruka Ahmadija. Bilo tko ga prihvati ili ne nije moj problem. On je Bog koji oblikuje srca svojih bića. Vi ne možete znati može li duša biti spremna za ovu poruku. Ahmadija čvrsto stoji u uvjerenju da nema prisile u vjeri i strogo ga slijedi. Cilj Ahmadija je samo dati poruku. Ako je tko zainteresiran može posjetiti web stranicu, www.alislam.hr.

here I translated your declamation, are you ready to give concrete answers.

Here is another one:
After coming of Isa and Imam Mehdi muslims and christians are going to be one ummah. also hilafet will be reestablished.

abouc cca 120 yrs passed and there is still ummah of christians and ummah of muslimans, there is no hilafet. there is no unuque gidnace among muslims.

How is it possible???
Dear

Diljem Europe vikenda je do nedjelje . Obećao sam da ću iznijeti više detalja i ideologiju o Ahmadija tako da učinim . Ona je spremna na engleskom čeka prijevod .

Obećali ste da ćete postavljati pitanja na engleskom jeziku koji nisam vidio ili može biti sam pao . Samo jednom sam mogao shvatiti . Wahi , Ilham i Kashaf . No, ono što je bilo pitanje nikada nisam pronašao . Ove tri su termini koji ukazuju na situaciju ili stanje uma i srca u kojem blaženicima dobiti upute od Boga . Wahi jenadređeni stanje , Ilham je na drugom mjestu i Kashaf je na trećem mjestu . Sada ono što je vaše pitanje o tim uvjetima ?

Što se tiče vaše citirao pitanje je u pitanju u vjerskim knjigama bilo da je Tora , Biblija ili Kur'an sve spominje metaforički i treba ga razumjeti . Mesija i Mehdi su jedan entitet . Kao što je po tvrdnji Ahmadija osnivač je on taj koji se pojavio na prorekao vrijeme naznačeno Poslaniku islama ( pile ) i spominje u Bibliji . Njegovi nasljednici , kao zajednica čini sve razvezati Ummet kršćana i muslimana . Međutim , glavni problem je njegovo prihvaćanje od strane ove dvije Ummahs . Dovoljno je posjetiti www.themuslimtimes.org ili www.alsilam.hr gdje i na engleskom i hrvatskom vijesti objavljeni su o nedavno provedenom svjetskih religija konferenciji gdje je vrhovni šef Ahamdiyya bioključni govornik u Londonu . Kršćani , Židovi , budisti, hindusi , siki , Zartasht , Baha'i su svi bili prisutni i cijenjeni Ahmadija napore da odvezati čovječanstvo pod vjerskom platforme . Problem sa sobom i živim u balkanskim zemljama je ili ignoriraju ili ne pozornost što Ahamdiyya se radi ujediniti sve religije .
Kao i za razdoblje za to odnosi to jedinstvo ,osnivač Ahamdiyya već je prorekao da će do 300 godina svog potraživanja,većina čovječanstva će biti u stanju prihvatiti poruku Ahmadija .

Za tvoju informaciju halifat u Ahamdiyya uniji nastavlja od 1908 nakon tužnog propasti obećanog Mesije i Mahdi . Trenutno 5. Khalifa Mirza Masroor Ahmad je vodeći zajednicu i ima svoje sjedište u Londonu . (google Translation)

All over Europe weekend is until Sunday. I promised to present more details and ideology about Ahmadija so shall I do. It is ready in English awaiting translation.

You promised to post your questions in English which I did not see or may be I slipped. Only one I could understand. Wahi, Ilham and Kashaf. But what was the question I never found. These three are terms which indicate situation or state of mind and heart in which blessed ones get guidance from God. Wahi is the superior state, Ilham is at second place and Kashaf is at third place. Now what is your question about these terms?

As for your quoted question is concerned in religious books be it Torah, Bible or Quran all is mentioned metaphorically and one has to understand it. Messiah and Mahdi are one entity. As per claim of Ahmadiyya Founder he is one who appeared at prophesied time indicated by Prophet of Islam (saw) as well mentioned in Bible. His successors as well community doing its best to untie the Ummah of Christians and Muslims. However main problem is his acceptance by these two Ummahs. Just visit www.themuslimtimes.org or www.alsilam.hr where both in English and Croatian news have been published about a recently conducted world religions conference where supreme head of Ahamdiyya was the key note speaker in London. Christians, Jews, Buddhist, Hindus, Sikhs, Zartasht, Baha'i all were present and appreciated the Ahmadiyya efforts to untie the mankind under religious platform. Problem with you and other living in Balkan states is either ignoring or no attention what Ahamdiyya is doing to unite all the religions.
As for period for this unity is concerned, the founder of Ahamdiyya has already prophesied that until 300 years of his claim the majority of mankind will be in a position to accept the message of Ahmadiyya.

For your information Khilafat in Ahamdiyya Community is continuing since 1908 after the sad demise of promised Messiah and Mahdi. Currently 5th Khalifa Mirza Masroor Ahmad is leading the community and has its headquarter in London.

Note: For world religions conference you have to open the news window of www.alislam.hr.
Napomena: Za svjetskim religijama konferenciji morate otvoriti vijesti prozor www.alislam.hr.

Zadnje uređivanje Ahmadija : 08.03.2014. at 23:01.
Ahmadija is offline  
Old 08.03.2014., 23:17   #53
A Philosophie touch

Quote:
Beljki kaže: Pogledaj post
It is also evident from past history that on any single accepted prophet there were thousands of forgotten ones whose followings did not manage to get the world stage and either remained irrelevant or disappeared. There were many "apocalyptic Messiahs" now forgotten in the old Judaism in the times of Jesus, there are avatars of god at any given time in every Indian town and while I'm not that sure about the history of Islam I'd bet a few internal organs there was more than one "Imam Mahdi" too.

None of them has any special reason to be believed in besides his and later the words of followers, Jesus and Mohammad included. History being written by winners, it is simply accepted through the sheer numbers of followers after some of those managed to spread. The social environment has significantly changed though and would not that easily permit a new dominant politically backed religion making it even more probable, if not even certain that any such new development will remain at a much smaller level.

In any case it is never proven nor accepted for any objective reason besides followers getting attached to the group for some reason and afterwards trying to rationalize it in one manner or other.
Yours is philosophical approach. Difference between religious reformer and philosopher lies in state of mind and heart. Philosopher thinking stops at a stage while he or she does not seek guidance from God for the right path. Contrary to it religious reformer puts all his problems to God for guidance.Setting aside what happened in past, with Messiah and Mahdi of current era God has promised to cause his message spread to the corners of the world means he will be for whole mankind. So he is universal and for the whole mankind.
You are right when you quote the past but to my understanding of Ahmadiyya, it has universal role and it may not face the same fate as you are quoting from the past. Let us hope and pray for the best.
Ahmadija is offline  
Old 09.03.2014., 00:02   #54
Quote:
Ahmadija kaže: Pogledaj post
Yours is philosophical approach. Difference between religious reformer and philosopher lies in state of mind and heart. Philosopher thinking stops at a stage while he or she does not seek guidance from God for the right path. Contrary to it religious reformer puts all his problems to God for guidance.Setting aside what happened in past, with Messiah and Mahdi of current era God has promised to cause his message spread to the corners of the world means he will be for whole mankind. So he is universal and for the whole mankind.
You are right when you quote the past but to my understanding of Ahmadiyya, it has universal role and it may not face the same fate as you are quoting from the past. Let us hope and pray for the best.
This actually means that unlike the philosopher the religious puts the critical mind away and accept whatever they are told in the name of whatever is presented as authority, with no actual reason whatsoever to believe it.

Now, if we discard the critical mind and are ready to believe anything why this and not that? What is more substantial in this claim than in the Scientology's one?

Talks about God, revelation etc are just words that anyone can utter. Sounds nice but has no foundation besides it's own poetical, social and religious appeal that is not actually related to the reality of the message.
__________________
SMISAO ZIVOTA !!!
Beljki is offline  
Old 09.03.2014., 01:10   #55
Quote:
Ahmadija kaže: Pogledaj post
Dear

All over Europe weekend is until Sunday. I promised to present more details and ideology about Ahmadija so shall I do. It is ready in English awaiting translation.
i like the words you use... like ideology

Quote:
You promised to post your questions in English which I did not see or may be I slipped.
ok i will repaeat them:

1. Based on what(Quran, hadith) ahmedis claim that Mirza had a wahy( bos: Objava) instead of ilham(bos: nadahnuće) or kashf(otkrovenje)?

2.Can ahmadis drink any kind of alcohol?
Vine, whiskey,...

3. How can it be that Isa, instead of come-down from heaven, choose to be metaphysicaly in one insiginifficant man?
Mirza is not blood-related with Muhammad a.s. od with Isa a.s.

4.Why Mirza is better than Geylani, Muhammad Chisty, Gazali,... that Allah, instead of them, give such a great gift to him?
Mirza is not even a hafiz...



5. I've noticed that world has an ahmedis translation of Qur'an but we don't have a ahmedis translation of the Bible!?

there is five question, and I even numerated them so you can't slip

Quote:
Only one I could understand. Wahi, Ilham and Kashaf. But what was the question I never found.
Mirza as I understood claim that he had a wahy. based on what?
Quote:
These three are terms which indicate situation or state of mind and heart in which blessed ones get guidance from God. Wahi is the superior state, Ilham is at second place and Kashaf is at third place. Now what is your question about these terms?
nope. Wahy is reserved only for a rasools.
ilham is generaly a good state but somethimes lover than kashf.


Quote:
As for your quoted question is concerned in religious books be it Torah, Bible or Quran all is mentioned metaphorically and one has to understand it. Messiah and Mahdi are one entity.
does mirza claimed at the beginning that he is a Mahdi?
Quote:
As per claim of Ahmadiyya Founder he is one who appeared at prophesied time indicated by Prophet of Islam (saw) as well mentioned in Bible.
on what prophet of islam you think?
Quote:
His successors as well community doing its best to untie the Ummah of Christians and Muslims.
succesors!?
not mahdy or Jesus but succesors...
but that's doesn't happening!
Quote:
However main problem is his acceptance by these two Ummahs.
ican't see the reason why I will accept mirza as a varis/succesor of Muhammed a.s.. He is not even a Ehli bejt

Quote:
Just visit www.themuslimtimes.org or www.alsilam.hr where both in English and Croatian news have been published about a recently conducted world religions conference where supreme head of Ahamdiyya was the key note speaker in London. Christians, Jews, Buddhist, Hindus, Sikhs, Zartasht, Baha'i all were present and appreciated the Ahmadiyya efforts to untie the mankind under religious platform.
and whwre are representative of muslim majority?
Quote:
Problem with you and other living in Balkan states is either ignoring or no attention what Ahamdiyya is doing to unite all the religions.
simple question: unite us arround what?
Quote:
As for period for this unity is concerned, the founder of Ahamdiyya has already prophesied that until 300 years of his claim the majority of mankind will be in a position to accept the message of Ahmadiyya.
300? why i see analogy with christiannity?
he sholud add 13 more 313 like ashabul Bedr. in that case analogy will be avoided.

Quote:
For your information Khilafat in Ahamdiyya Community is continuing since 1908 after the sad demise of promised Messiah and Mahdi.
how can you do that when muslim in that time still had a caliph?
1924 caliphat was dismised
so by the islam he could not do that.
Quote:
Currently 5th Khalifa Mirza Masroor Ahmad is leading the community and has its headquarter in London.

Note: For world religions conference you have to open the news window of www.alislam.hr.
Napomena: Za svjetskim religijama konferenciji morate otvoriti vijesti prozor www.alislam.hr.[/QUOTE]

short translatipn of Ahmadija post:
Ahmedija u ovom postu tvrdi neke zanimljive stvari:
tvrdi de su ahmedije ideologija i ja nemam zamjerku na to!

tvrdi da nije vidio moja pitanja i ja sam mu ih ponovio.

tvrdi da su wahj ilham i kesh stepeni određenih stanja i rangira ih tako što wahy opisuje kao posebno stanje dok su ova dva niža
na šta sam mu ja odogovrio da je Wahy rezervisan samo za poslanike i još sam ga upitao na ćemu temelji( Kur'an Biblija) svoju tvrdnju da je mirza baš taj.
onda spominje nekog "prophet od islam" a meni nije baš najjasnije na koga misli.

spominje i neko ujedinjenje muslimana i kršćana nak ojem rade ahmedije a ja sam konstatovao da se to ne događa.
spominje i nasljednike Mirze koji eto rade na tome iako muslimani i kršćani čvrsto vjeruju da će se to ujedinjenje dogoditi za vrijeme jednog vođe. ne vodstva!
zatim spominje da su oni napravili svjetsku konferenciju vjere na koju su pozvali sve osim muslimana i ja sam ukazao na to.
zatim spominje period od 300 godina na šta sam mu ja skrenuo pažnju da je analogija sa kršćanstvom a da je napisao 313 da bi se takva nalogija izbjelga
usput, unutar tih 300 on piše će svako biti u prilici da prihvati mirzu kao obećanog mehdija i mesiju... eto mi smo bili u prilici da ga prihvatimo i eto ne prihvatismo ga.
zatim govori da su ahmedije uspostavile hilafet iako je u to vrijema postojao halifa, sto je prema propsisima islama pogrešno.

eto to je tok ko misli da treba dodati još nešto bujrum!
__________________
Milostivi; Poučava Kur'anu; Stvara Čovjeka; Poučava Bejjanu(objelodanjujućem govoru) (55:1-4)
MukaFFa is offline  
Old 09.03.2014., 01:27   #56
Quote:
Ahmadija kaže: Pogledaj post
Yours is philosophical approach. Difference between religious reformer and philosopher lies in state of mind and heart. Philosopher thinking stops at a stage while he or she does not seek guidance from God for the right path. Contrary to it religious reformer puts all his problems to God for guidance.Setting aside what happened in past, with Messiah and Mahdi of current era God has promised to cause his message spread to the corners of the world means he will be for whole mankind. So he is universal and for the whole mankind.
You are right when you quote the past but to my understanding of Ahmadiyya, it has universal role and it may not face the same fate as you are quoting from the past. Let us hope and pray for the best.
translation: prepjev:
veli ahmedija iz grla bijela kako postoji razlika između religijskog i filozofskog leži u stanju ume i srca.

eto filozofi ne traže podršku i uputu od boga
a oni drugi traže... ovo ostalo se moeže pročitati na njihvom sajtu

question:

Mirza is passed away.
Who is by ahamdis "Messiah and Mahdi of current era"?

Now i realize why Mirza could't accept to bi only mujjadid!
Imam Rabbani is already Mujjadid of the second millenium. so he didn't have a chance to be the greatest of the millenuim.

also one interesting thing about Mirza iz that he a certain period of his life was alone at the friday noon pray which is obligate for muslims to be present.

so can we conclude that mirza didn't live by the regulations of islam

Muslimanska ulema idneije je mizri nudila da bude mudžedid tj obnovitelj vjere, ali prije njega potvrđenu titulu obnovitelja drugog milenijuma je već imao Imam Rabbani pa tako on nije imao šansu da bude makar najveći u svom milenijumu.

takođet jedan veoma zanimljiv detalj je i taj da se mirza za vrijeme podnevne molitve petkom osamljivao u napuštenoj džamiji što prema propisima islama predstavlja težak grijeh. jedan od navećih činova neposlušnosti Bogu.

S obzirom da on sebe smatra nasljednikom Muhammeda a.s. isti je bezkompromisno držao sve propisie vjere.
__________________
Milostivi; Poučava Kur'anu; Stvara Čovjeka; Poučava Bejjanu(objelodanjujućem govoru) (55:1-4)
MukaFFa is offline  
Old 09.03.2014., 02:28   #57
Nije baš da je Ahmedija rekao da su ahmedije --- ideologija.


Rekao je ovo:
Quote:
I promised to present more details and ideology about Ahmadija so shall I do.
znači "više detalja i ideologije o ahmedijama".

U ovom kontekstu, ideologija može označavati i skup vrijednosti/vjerovanja/učenja/svjetonazora/putokaza, a ne nužno negativno obojan koncept koji se često veže uz sumnjive/radikalne (često politički motivirane) struje.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ideology
ti se referiraš na značenje pod c) , iako bi bilo primjerenije ovo pod a) i b).
Meadow is offline  
Old 09.03.2014., 03:01   #58
Quote:
Meadow kaže: Pogledaj post
Nije baš da je Ahmedija rekao da su ahmedije --- ideologija.


Rekao je ovo:

znači "više detalja i ideologije o ahmedijama".

U ovom kontekstu, ideologija može označavati i skup vrijednosti/vjerovanja/učenja/svjetonazora/putokaza, a ne nužno negativno obojan koncept koji se često veže uz sumnjive/radikalne (često politički motivirane) struje.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ideology
ti se referiraš na značenje pod c) , iako bi bilo primjerenije ovo pod a) i b).
ni našta se ja ne referiram. samo primjećujem da ima zanimljiv izbor riječi.
nije mi jasno zašto ti ovdje pojam idelogije vezuješ uz vjeru ili uz radikalizam.

Vidi najbaži stav umjernih muslimana(takav je otprilike i moj stav u vezi ahmedija da se radi o makar sumnjivim stvarima. oni prema pisanju Ahmedije ne negiraju temeljne postulate islama, ali sigurno imaju lidera koji nije radio sve prema važećim propisima vjere.

Ali Meadow moraš imati u vidu da se tip referira na islam i da sebe čak naziva "propht of islam" ali dosad vješto izbjegava činjenicu, čak i ako prihvatimo mefetizičko mesijanstvo i mehdijanstvo kao mogućnost, opet nema utemeljenja da baš mirza bude taj. jer prema islamu Mehdi mora biti Krvni potomak Muhammeda- što on nije.

on nikad nije ni tvrdio da je od ehli bejta- a mogao je galantno, da se samo sjetio, ustvrditi da je Sanjao Poslanika koji ga tom prilikom nazvao elhi bjetom/svojom porodciom.
__________________
Milostivi; Poučava Kur'anu; Stvara Čovjeka; Poučava Bejjanu(objelodanjujućem govoru) (55:1-4)
MukaFFa is offline  
Old 09.03.2014., 03:10   #59
Ma nije rekao za sebe da je Prorok, nego za Mirzu Ahmada.
Meadow is offline  
Old 09.03.2014., 14:02   #60
Replies

1. Based on what(Quran, hadith) ahmedis claim that Mirza had a wahy( bos: Objava) instead of ilham(bos: nadahnuće) or kashf(otkrovenje)?

2.Can ahmadis drink any kind of alcohol?
Vine, whiskey,...

3. How can it be that Isa, instead of come-down from heaven, choose to be metaphysicaly in one insiginifficant man?
Mirza is not blood-related with Muhammad a.s. od with Isa a.s.

4.Why Mirza is better than Geylani, Muhammad Chisty, Gazali,... that Allah, instead of them, give such a great gift to him?
Mirza is not even a hafiz...



5. I've noticed that world has an ahmedis translation of Qur'an but we don't have a ahmedis translation of the Bible!?

there is five question, and I even numerated them so you can't slip

Poštovani , prije svega pokušati riješiti osobnosti s poštovanjem. To je učenja islama .
1 . Kao što je ranije pomenuo Wahi , Ilham i Kashaf su države s kojima blagoslovljeni oni su vođeni od Boga . Kao što je po uvjerenju Ahamdiyya , njezin osnivač volio proroka Muhameda (Saw ) toliko i zablistao u pobožnosti do te mjere da je blagoslovljen od Boga s Wahi , Ilham i Kashaf . ( Sva tri ) Wahi nije posebna zakonskim imajući proroka . Vidjeti Sura ALNAHAL od Kur'ana , gdje med bio je blagoslovio s Wahi . Posjeta Sura Alqasus gdje majka proroka Mojsija ( as) je bio blagoslovljen Wahi . Dakle, ako je osnivač Ahamdiyya je blagoslovio s Wahi ono što ječudno ?
2 . To ovisi , ako je za radost onda je jasno NE, kao što je zabranjeno u Kur'anu . Međutim za lijekove ili ako je propisano od strane liječnika kao lijek u akutnim bolesti , rijetko se može uzeti kao jedini lijek .

3 . Nerazumijevanje u metaforičkom situaciji je što se un lako . Ovdje nitko ne znači krv odnos s broda , ali je u pobožnosti i sličnosti okolnost i sličnoj situaciji je značilo . Prema vjerovanju Ahamdiyya ISA ( AS ) je bio veliki prorok svog vremena . On je preživio plodonošenja . Zaliječeni i migrirali prema Afganistanu i Kašmiru u potrazi za izgubljenim plemenima Bani Izraela . On je završio svoju misiju i umro prirodnom smrću u dobi od 120 godina, te je pokopan u Srinagar Kašmiru . Detalje možete pročitati knjigu Isusa u Indiji preveden na svoj ​​jezik i dostupan na web stranici www.alislam.hr .
Dakle Ahmadija ne vjeruje itko dolazi s neba . odnos je samo metaforički , a odnosi se na duhovno stanje .
4 . U Kur'anu se spominje da jestrah od Boga ( taqwa što čini tko poštuje u Božjim očima ) Pitaj Boga zašto je izabran Mirza Ghulam Ahmad ( AS ) treba obećao Mesiju i Mahdi . Čak možete pitati zašto je Bog izabrao Poslanik Muhammed (SAW) kao prorok , dok je on bio UMMI ( neobrazovani )Prigovor koji je podigao Ebu Jehl koji je sebe nazivao kao Abul Hakam . Imena koje se poduzimaju su bili veliki učenjaci svoje vrijeme i sve se poštuju Ahmaiyya ipak nisu bili u stanju ono Mirza Ghulam Ahamd postignut u Božjim očima zbog čiste ljubavi Boga i njegovog poslanika Muhameda ( SAW )
5 . Ahmadija je drugo ime za oživljavanje pravog islama i milošću Svemogućeg je već preveo Kur'an na 74 jezika . Zašto i što za to treba prevesti Bibliju ? Kršćani već to rade na različitim jezicima . Kršćani ili druge religije nikada prevedene Kur'an na bilo kojem jeziku zašto Ahamdiyya bi trebao to učiniti . Nisam mogla shvatiti svoju logiku .

Dear first of all try to address the personalities with respect. It is the teachings of Islam.
1. As intimated earlier Wahi, Ilham and Kashaf are states with which blessed ones are guided by God. As per belief of Ahamdiyya, its founder loved the Prophet Muhammad (saw) so much and excelled in piety to the extent that was blessed by God with Wahi, Ilham and Kashaf.(All three) Wahi is not special to law bearing prophets. See Sura ALNAHAL of Quran where honey been has been blessed with Wahi. Read Sura Alqasus where mother of prophet Moses (AS)was blessed with Wahi. So if founder of Ahamdiyya is blessed with Wahi what is the surprise?
2. It depends if it is for joy then clearly NO, as it is forbidden in Quran. However for medicines or if prescribed by doctor as medicine in acute sickness, rarely one can take it as medicine only.

3. Lack of understanding to metaphorical situation is making you un easy. Here no one means blood relation ship but in piety and resemblance of circumstance and similar situation is meant. According to belief of Ahamdiyya ISA (AS) was a great prophet of his time. He survived fructification. Healed up and migrated towards Afghanistan and Kashmir in search of lost tribes of Bani Israel. He completed his mission and died natural death at the age of 120 years and is buried in Srinagar Kashmir. For details you can read book Jesus in India translated in your language and available on web site www.alislam.hr.
So Ahmadiyya does not believe any one coming from heaven. relation ship is only metaphorical and relates to spiritual state.
4. In Quran it is mentioned it is the fear of God (Taqwa which makes any one respectful in the eyes of God) Ask God why he selected Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) to be promised Messiah and Mahdi. Even you can ask why God chose prophet Muhammad (saw) as prophet while he was UMMI (uneducated) An objection which was raised by Abu Jehl who used to call himself as Abul Hakam. The names which you are taking were great scholars of their time and all are respected by Ahmaiyya however were not of the status what Mirza Ghulam Ahamd achieved in the eyes of God due to pure love God and his Prophet Muhammad (SAW)
5. Ahmadiyya is other name for revival of true Islam and by the grace of Almighty it has already translated Holy Quran in 74 languages. Why and what for it should translate Bible? Christians are already doing it in various languages. Christians or other religions never translated Quran in any language why Ahamdiyya should do it. I could not understand your logic.
Ahmadija is offline  
Zatvorena tema


Tematski alati
Opcije prikaza

Kreni na podforum




Sva vremena su GMT +2. Trenutno vrijeme je: 10:07.