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Old 05.11.2017., 20:55   #1
Angry Otvaranje kafića - susjed ne dozvoljava mjerenje buke

Poštovanje,

U prizemlju stambene zgrade se otvara cafe bar, a iznad njega su dva stana.

S obzirom da za ispunjavanje minimalnih tehničkih uvjeta treba donijeti atest o buci, nas dva susjeda smo se dogovorili da mu nećemo dozvoliti mjerenje buke.
1) Zanima me može li nas vlasnik kafića tužiti i dobiti tu tužbu?

2) Može li se nekako zaobići mjerenje buke u našim stanovima i bez toga otvoriti kafić?

Razlog ovakvog našeg ponašanja jest što vlasnik kafića nikako ne želi razgovarati sa nama susjedima. Sada, dok kafić još nije službeno otvoren, on radi privatne zabave i buka je nepodnošljiva. Razlog je i što na prvom mjerenju buke (koji smo dozvolili) nije zadovoljio granične vrijednosti i onda je pozvao drugu firmu da mjeri buku (to nismo dozvolili).

Također je provukao ventilacijske cijevi točno ispod mog prozora (30cm) i nije izvukao dimnjak na vrh zgrade (kao susjedni kafić). Kontaktirao sam sanitarnu inspekciju u svezi mogućeg ulaska smrada iz ventilacije u moj stan i oni su me uputili na ministarstvo zaštite okoliša. Ovi su me pak uputili na ministarstvo rada... i tako u krug. - vjerojatno je toga svjestan i vlasnik kafića pa zato i nije izvukao dimnjak na vrh zgrade.

3) Kome mogu prijaviti problem sa ispušnim plinovima iz kafića koji će ulaziti u moj stan?

4)Imate li još neki savjet?

Zahvaljujem!
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Old 14.11.2017., 00:26   #2
Nažalost samo velika upornost. Pisani upiti (rokovi odgovora su od 15 do 30 dana obično i obično ništa ne odgovore na pitanje.
Smatram kako je sanitarna isključivo odgovorna za Vaš slučaj

Može se "odokativno" procijeniti kolika je atenuacija ili razina buke u Vašem stanu. Stručnjaci u tom poslu mogu biti vrlo precizni temeljem mjerenja na dostupnim prostorima mada je akustika specifična. No da bi pobili njih morate imati mjerenje u svom stanu.

Ne može dobiti parnicu jer je Vaše pravo da ne dozvolite mjerenje u Vašem stanu.
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Old 23.11.2017., 10:56   #3
kolega, vidim ima već 2 tjedna da ste postavili pitanje, ukoliko niste našli riješenje ja ću vam ispričati moju priču s kafićem.
vrlo slična situacija, bagra pušta glasnu glazbu, zgrada je starija bez izolacije ikakve, goli beton, krši radno vrijeme, trešti sve u 16...policiju nazivano sto puta - nikad ništa od njih, dođu , ustanove da je buka, kažu smanji, odu ovaj opet glasno. I to glasno do te mjere da ja na 2 katu čujem koja pjesma točno svira. Jedan dan puko mi film skroz i sjetim se sanitarne - došli mu mjeriti buku i zatvore budalu na 8 dana i nalože mu da izvoli izolirat buku, tj napraviti zvučnu izolaciju u kafiću. On je ima neke gipserske radove, nešto je trkelja onuda kao, i naplate mu kaznu još. Nije prošlo dugo, evo opet pomalo feštice pizdarije...okupljanja do kasno i vika ljudima ispod balkona u kasne sate....aj zdravo, opet ja sanitarnu, opet mu utvrde nepravilnosti, opet mu naplate kaznu, opet mu zatvore kafić i uzmu mu liniju tj zabrane da ima kako oni kažu elektroakustični uređaj, podnesu upravni postupak što ti ja znam. Njemu linija opet svira nakon par dana (eto koliko ga boli kurac za zakon), doduše tiho ali svira, iako je ne smije imati. Zaključak svega - isprebijati ko vola i slati svako malo inspekcije od sanitarne do porezne , turističke ako krši radno vrijeme, prijavljivat policiji konstntno itd....pa kome prije dosadi.

p.s. ovo za dimnjak ako nemaš di prijavit daj ga u provjereno il neke novine razvlači budalu maksimalno di god stigneš.

p.s.s. reka sam sebi ako se ikad budem selija, prvo što gledam da zgrada nema poslovne prostore niti ikakvu mogućnost otvaranja kafića u bližoj okolici od par sto metara
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Old 25.11.2017., 16:15   #4
Hvala ljudi na odgovoru. Imam nekih novosti pa da se javim...

1. Izgleda da je kafic dobio atest za buku, tako sto je firma mjerila buku u stubistu i procijenila buku u stanu!
Nevjerojatno mi je to, jer iznad kafica su samo 2 stana, i ne znam kako moze neko procijenit buku u stanu iznad, ako mjeri buku na zidu bocno od kafica...osim ako se ne potplati...

2. Pise na kaficu da je radno vrijeme do 3 sata u jutro!
Kako je to moguce, u stambenoj zgradi dozvola za rad do 3 u jutro?
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Old 27.11.2017., 20:32   #5
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2. Pise na kaficu da je radno vrijeme do 3 sata u jutro!
Kako je to moguce, u stambenoj zgradi dozvola za rad do 3 u jutro?
Kaj se tiče radnog vremena svaki grad (ili lokalna samouprava) sam donosi odluke o radnim vremenima ugostiteljskih objekata (radna vremena ugostiteljskih objekata ne odlučuju se na razini države), izgleda da ovaj tvoj kafic ima dozvolu kao noćni klub...a to mu je netko iz grada omogućio

E sad, dal je gazda samoinicijativno stavio to radno vrijeme ili mu je stvarno netko iz uprave tvog grada to omogućio trebalo bi provjeriti, ja bi poslao email sa tim upitom u gradsku upravu
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Old 01.12.2017., 19:22   #6
Za buku, jedini način da pobiješ taj atest je da dopustiš testiranje u svom stanu, ali onda ti nađi firmu koja će testiranje obaviti da ne bi bilo muljaže s njegove strane, samo računaj da ćeš to testiranje ti platiti, a od njega možeš utužiti trošak samo ako se pokaže da je buka prekoračena.

Što se ventilacije tiče, tu bi prvi korak bio reagirati preko predstavnika stanara (ako postoji) jer time, osim što ometa druge stanare, ujedno radi i štetu na zgradi u vidu prljanja fasade.
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Old 01.12.2017., 20:58   #7
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4)Imate li još neki savjet?

Zahvaljujem!
prvo moja sucut na ovome jer ne bih ti bila u kozi, kafic ispod stana to je strava i uzas pogotvo za ljude koji rade i trebaju noc i popodne za spavanje i odmor. Imam ja susjede koji iznajmljuju ljeti turistima pa mucim muku s njima. Treba im non stop zvati policiju jer s time ces ugroziti rad kafica (tko ga hebe i on ugrozava vas zivot) i konstantno mu zvati neke inspekcije i zatvorit ce ga neka kad tad. Koji to uopce zakon dopusta otvaranje kafica u stambenoj zgradi? To je katastrofa.......i rad do tri ujutro? to je potplatio nekoga, nema sanse da moze dobiti dozvolu za to. Pa sto cete vi sad prestati zivjeti jer je netko odlucio zaraditi otvarajuci kafic. Iako mislim da mu nece biti neka zarada, tko vise ima love za visiti po kafanama. Ja sam mislila d aje meni uzasno s turistima ali ovo je deset puta gore
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Old 07.12.2017., 19:30   #8
Evo da se javim, možda moja saznanja budu nekome od koristi...

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Kaj se tiče radnog vremena svaki grad (ili lokalna samouprava) sam donosi odluke o radnim vremenima ugostiteljskih objekata (radna vremena ugostiteljskih objekata ne odlučuju se na razini države), izgleda da ovaj tvoj kafic ima dozvolu kao noćni klub...a to mu je netko iz grada omogućio
Poslao sam dopis Gradu, ali su me oni uputili na Ured državne uprave u Županiji, Službu za gospodarstvo. Sada čekam njihov dopis.


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Za buku, jedini način da pobiješ taj atest je da dopustiš testiranje u svom stanu, ali onda ti nađi firmu koja će testiranje obaviti da ne bi bilo muljaže s njegove strane, samo računaj da ćeš to testiranje ti platiti, a od njega možeš utužiti trošak samo ako se pokaže da je buka prekoračena.


Što se ventilacije tiče, tu bi prvi korak bio reagirati preko predstavnika stanara (ako postoji) jer time, osim što ometa druge stanare, ujedno radi i štetu na zgradi u vidu prljanja fasade.
Dopisom sam kontaktirao Sanitarnu inspekciju, i oni odgovaraju kako je vlasnik kafića IZJAVIO da ga nisam pustio u kuću. O tome ne postoji nikakav pisani trag, osim dopisa od upravitelja zgrade da se obrati stanarima u svezi problema s bukom. Osobno sam i bio u sanitarnog inspektora koji me je uvjeravao da je vlasnik kafića vrlo fina osoba i uljudna... strašno nešto tu smrdi...

Što se tiče ventilacije, Ministarstvo zdravstva (sanitarna) je odgovorila da nisu zaduženi za smrad iz ventilacije ispod prozora, već ministarstvo zaštite okoliša.
Ministarstvo zaštite okoliša je telefonski odgovorilo da nisu oni zaduženi za taj problem. Sad čekam i pismeno očitovanje. Tko je onda zadužen?

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prvo moja sucut na ovome jer ne bih ti bila u kozi, kafic ispod stana to je strava i uzas pogotvo za ljude koji rade i trebaju noc i popodne za spavanje i odmor. Imam ja susjede koji iznajmljuju ljeti turistima pa mucim muku s njima. Treba im non stop zvati policiju jer s time ces ugroziti rad kafica (tko ga hebe i on ugrozava vas zivot) i konstantno mu zvati neke inspekcije i zatvorit ce ga neka kad tad. Koji to uopce zakon dopusta otvaranje kafica u stambenoj zgradi? To je katastrofa.......i rad do tri ujutro? to je potplatio nekoga, nema sanse da moze dobiti dozvolu za to. Pa sto cete vi sad prestati zivjeti jer je netko odlucio zaraditi otvarajuci kafic. Iako mislim da mu nece biti neka zarada, tko vise ima love za visiti po kafanama. Ja sam mislila d aje meni uzasno s turistima ali ovo je deset puta gore
Vlasnici su Hrvat i Amerikanac, tako da je kafić pun stranih državljana. Ti očito imaju novaca za kafiće...
Ali sumnjam da je dosta ljudi u ovom krugu potplaćeno, jer ne vidim načina kako je moguće ishoditi tako sve te dozvole...

Ali ništa, znam šta me čeka, šaljem prijave, prikupljam odgovore na dopise, pripremam se za tužbu državnom odvjetništvu i/ili privatnu tužbu protiv vlasnika.... Nadam se da će na kraju pravna država pobijedit...
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Old 07.12.2017., 20:04   #9
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4)Imate li još neki savjet?

Zahvaljujem!
kafić bez wifija nije kafić. neću elaborirat dalje.
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Old 24.12.2017., 15:21   #10
Wink Greetings from your neighbors :)

Hey, this is Tim downstairs...the American you mentioned in your prior post. I read your post and also had it translated for me. I thought this would be a good place to address some of your concerns.

Please keep in mind that the information you spoke about in this post has been printed and saved. We found out through social media which neighbor you are. This information has been turned over to our attorney. We have been advised to meet and try to discuss any concerns you have, instead of following another legal path. Our counsel believes we have a strong case for a criminal and civil harassment case against you. This case strengthens with every post stating the illegitimate ways you are trying to close our business, every false call to the police, every inspector that comes and finds we are doing everything properly (porezna was here yesterday....they really enjoyed our beer and coffee selection). We won't take this path at this time. But, we will respond publicly here and hopefully we can speak after the holidays.

As you know, we are open. We received our paperwork from općina and we are legally operating. Prior to being open, we tried speaking to your family, your neighbor and the building manager. We were immediately told that we needed to hook up our ventilation to the building ventilation and we also had to pay the cost to clean it. After that conversation, a similar one with the gentleman on your floor, the information in this post about bringing a lawsuit against us and several other threats from you and the neighbors, we decided to stop communication and focus on getting the bar opened.

Now that we are open and operational, we will be in contact with you and the neighbors to see if there is some cooperation we can have.

Let me make two points though. First, we were renovating this place for six months. You can come to us if you would like to speak about something. You are the one with the problem. You should make the effort.

Second, a rhetorical question: if you were switching your flat into a business space, why would you come to us to discuss it? We have no obligation to come to you and discuss our building process. We have the obligation to meet the City's legal requirements. The city has found we meet all of the minimal requirements.

I'll now address some of your other complaints.

We don't bribe anyone. Never have, never will. That is why it took us six months to get all of our paperwork. It is the same as when the building representative asked us to pay for cleaning the chimney, we shut off communication.

I will tell you this though. When the inspector came, we showed them your post and said you thought we were bribing them. You can imagine how insulted they felt that you were questioning their integrity. The information in your post definitely didn't help your case. Also, when you call them or visit them as you mention, they already know who you are and that you are trying to build a false case against us. Your post here was a mistake for your cause and hopefully you learn a lesson about posting on social media this stuff in the future.

Concerning the ventilation, only cigarette smoke is coming from here and we have a very good system with a great filter. Below your windows is an air intake....not an exhaust. The ventilation definitely is not causing you any problems.

With sound, we did a preliminary test with no furniture or anything to see what improvements we would have to make. The original a-test guy tried selling us a 2 centimeter thick rubber floor. No other caffe bar has this and we knew there had to be an alternative solution. We contacted our architect and they recommended us someone they worked with in the past. After the a-test in your flat, we added furniture, shelves, curtains, padded linoleum floor and many other improvements.

We asked to retest in your apartment, not just to pass the a-test, but to see if we were impacting you. Your mother refused to let us test in the apartment. We met with the sanitary department and the sound engineer....we reviewed the law and took the new test from directly outside of your door. This was a more difficult test for us, because any potential sound from our space would surely be louder through a single wall than in your apartment. We passed this test.

I will highlight another mistake on your end. Say for some reason we are louder in your apartment than in the hallway (but we aren't). Since you denied letting us in, you waived the ability for us to make further improvements to stop any impacts. You were so intent on stopping us from opening, you actually prevented us from addressing any potential problems you have with sound by not letting us see if there was a problem in your apartment. We have a saying that you shouldn't ˝cut off your nose to spite your face˝. Hopefully now that we are open, we can find a way to work together.

Lastly, we have both our license for a caffe bar and a noćni bar. That means there were more difficult requirements to get opened than an everyday caffe bar has to go through. The law states we can actually stay open until 06:00. We decided to be a good neighbor, we chose to stop serving at 02:00 and have everyone out of the place by 03:00.

I would suggest saving your money and time on lawsuits and working with us to do something that will make your lives better. We really did a lot on our end to be a good neighbor. You've done nothing but try to obstruct us. If you want to start over and try to have a dialogue, you will have your chance next week. We will give you a call after the first of the year.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family from To Je To.
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Old 26.12.2017., 15:36   #11
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Lastly, we have both our license for a caffe bar and a noćni bar. That means there were more difficult requirements to get opened than an everyday caffe bar has to go through. The law states we can actually stay open until 06:00. We decided to be a good neighbor, we chose to stop serving at 02:00 and have everyone out of the place by 03:00.
Hahahaha, dobar dobar...kao prvo moraš shvatiti da nismo u Americi, te fore sa prijetnjom pravnicima ovdje baš ne prolaze, sama činjenica da si dobio dozvolu za noćni klub u naseljenom mjestu tj. zgradi (ako sam dobro shvatio da se radi o zgradi) već upućuje na sumnjiv način dobivanja dozvole...tak da tu spiku kak je sve "legalno" pričaj nekom drugom

I stvarno si dobar susjed nema što, u 2 prestaješ posluživat, u 3 gosti moraju van, a čovjek iznad vas mora se dizat u 6 ujutro da bi išao na posao...jedino kaj ti želim da shvatiš o čemu autor topica priča je da netko ispod stana gdje ti živiš otvori noćni klub...jerbo nije noćni klub samo glazba i buka iz kluba, već i buka pijane ekipe prilikom dolaska i odlaska u klub, buka automobila od tih istih, pa svađe i da ne nabrajam sve ostalo...
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Old 26.12.2017., 23:40   #12
Ovaj Amer se napucal ko žaba, sav si je važan sa tim Sutkinja Amy forama.

Hello, brother from America
This is MMachete from forum.hr
First of all, we would like to thank you for being so kind and give as opportunity to have our own bar/club stationed in a building full of people.If you hit if off right, you can open next one by the mortuary.
Without you and your grace, we wouldnt be able to enjoy neat sounds of drunken klošari and ex-pomorci in 3 in the morning, which would most probably be your guests.
Hello Jenki, you are not doing us a favor with that birtija, you are trying to make money, you asked arround ,and you heard the fastest way to do that down here is to open a birtija.Dont blame us if we dont put red carpet in front of you and your $.
And as far as I see, author of the topic never said that anyone took a brige.He said that he has some doubts, thats all.

To conclude: I dont know either one of you , but if someone opened a bar on the ground floor of my building, I would be PISSED. If there is 1 dB of noise over the legal limit, or a sign of smoke that isnt supposed to be there, that place should be closed.
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Old 28.12.2017., 21:27   #13
Yes, everything here is true. I came from the U.S. to open a beertija....but only after I spoke to some sailors and they said that’s the quickest way to make money. I was also told to bribe every official. Most importantly, only sell Dalmatcijavino, because Badel is from Zagreb and we can’t have that. I always wear an American flag and really am surprised no one bowed down to me.

I mean have a little sense. It’s simple. We can work with our neighbors, which we are willing to do...or we fight back. Why waste our time in negativity? 1db? Do you even realize what you’re talking about? People walking in the streets? These are kid games.

This bar was established in the center for three years before our move. We support local small businesses, pay our employees well and on time, and we have a great record of supporting local artists and charities. Check our Facebook page....it’s all in pictures.

If you care more about 1db than local orphans, homeless animals and people, then pay 5,000 HRK for the atest. You have that right.

If you want to post on forum.hr rather than walk downstairs and speak to us about your concerns, then post something here. You have that right.

If you have nothing better to do with your life than to cause us problems and stop the government from dealing with real problems that affect Split, then call every inspector and police officer. You have that right.

But we also have our rights and pathways through the legal process. We are not and will not be sitting ducks. We will continue to support the community and be good neighbors. We will continue to run our business, legally and properly. If our neighbors refuse to work with us, I know I’ll still be able to go to sleep at night .
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Old 28.12.2017., 21:31   #14
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Yes, everything here is true. I came from the U.S. to open a beertija....but only after I spoke to some sailors and they said that’s the quickest way to make money. I was also told to bribe every official. Most importantly, only sell Dalmatcijavino, because Badel is from Zagreb and we can’t have that. I always wear an American flag and really am surprised no one bowed down to me.

I mean have a little sense. It’s simple. We can work with our neighbors, which we are willing to do...or we fight back. Why waste our time in negativity? 1db? Do you even realize what you’re talking about? People walking in the streets? These are kid games.

This bar was established in the center for three years before our move. We support local small businesses, pay our employees well and on time, and we have a great record of supporting local artists and charities. Check our Facebook page....it’s all in pictures.

If you care more about 1db than local orphans, homeless animals and people, then pay 5,000 HRK for the atest. You have that right.

If you want to post on forum.hr rather than walk downstairs and speak to us about your concerns, then post something here. You have that right.

If you have nothing better to do with your life than to cause us problems and stop the government from dealing with real problems that affect Split, then call every inspector and police officer. You have that right.

But we also have our rights and pathways through the legal process. We are not and will not be sitting ducks. We will continue to support the community and be good neighbors. We will continue to run our business, legally and properly. If our neighbors refuse to work with us, I know I’ll still be able to go to sleep at night .

Plis plis buy my birtija at Zagreb. Low cost only 60 000 € . Plis bay Amerika
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Old 28.12.2017., 21:41   #15
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Plis plis buy my birtija at Zagreb. Low cost only 60 000 € . Plis bay Amerika
Only if it’s in Vrapće....I live nearby 😝😂
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Old 28.12.2017., 22:11   #16
Vi ste se dakle premjestili beertiju iz centra grada gdje su vaše aktivnosti uobičajene u stambeni kvart koji nije na nekoj turističkoj ruti i imate problema samo s jednim susjedom? Pa vi ste pravi sretnici...

Ovo se neko za*ebava, lokacija ove beertije ne odgovara opisu iz prvog posta

Ako se pak ne za*ebavate onda si sredite web stranicu, ne može se otkriti jeste li u Nigerovoj (nevjerojatno zapravo ) ili Vukovarskoj
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Old 29.12.2017., 22:20   #17
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I know I’ll still be able to go to sleep at night .
Naravno, nemaš noćni klub ispod svog stana...
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Old 03.01.2018., 23:38   #18
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Please keep in mind that the information you spoke about in this post has been printed and saved. We found out through social media which neighbor you are. This information has been turned over to our attorney. We have been advised to meet and try to discuss any concerns you have, instead of following another legal path. Our counsel believes we have a strong case for a criminal and civil harassment case against you.
Sukladno Članku 139. Kaznenog zakona, ovo se smatra prijetnjom.


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porezna was here yesterday....they really enjoyed our beer and coffee selection.
Upravo ste optužili inspektora da je povrijedio Članak 58. Zakona o zaštiti na radu.

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You can come to us if you would like to speak about something. You are the one with the problem.
Drago mi je da ste pisano potvrdili da mi imamo problem, odnosno da su naše žalbe institucijama utemeljene.


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bousser kaže: Pogledaj post
Your post here was a mistake for your cause and hopefully you learn a lesson about posting on social media this stuff in the future.
Na forumu sam oduvijek registriran sa svojim pravim nadimkom, i nemam potrebu ništa od nikoga skrivati, a imena vlasnika i ime kafića nigdje nisam spomenuo.

Quote:
bousser kaže: Pogledaj post
I would suggest saving your money and time on lawsuits and working with us to do something that will make your lives better.
Ovo predstavlja indirektnu prijetnju.

Quote:
bousser kaže: Pogledaj post
If you want to start over and try to have a dialogue, you will have your chance next week. We will give you a call after the first of the year.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family from To Je To.
Da sada detaljno ne elaboriram svaku stavku Vašeg posta, navodeći odredbe Ustava RH, Kaznenog zakona, Zakona o vlasništvu i drugim stvarnim pravima, itd., koje me štite kao građanina RH ja ću Vam samo poželjeti Čestit Božić i Sretnu Novu Godinu, uz napomenu da još uvijek nisam primio Vaš poziv.
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