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Old 07.03.2007., 12:57   #1
enemy combantant
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Je li Cionizam=rasizam

Pitanje je jednostavno: smatrate li da je cionizam(Zidovski nacionalizam) rasisticki pokret?

SPECIJALNI DODATAK:citati Izraelskih lidera i pozatih Cionista,procitaj pa procjeni


"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.


"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).



David Ben Gurion
Prime Minister of Israel
1949 - 1954,
1955 - 1963

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.

"Any one who speaks in favor of bringing the Arab refugees back must also say how he expects to take the responsibility for it, if he is interested in the state of Israel. It is better that things are stated clearly and plainly: We shall not let this happen."
-- Golda Meir, 1961, in a speech to the Knesset, reported in Ner, October 1961

"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy."
-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971



Golda Meir
Prime Minister of Israel
1969 - 1974


"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."
-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)


Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel
1974 - 1977,
1992 - 1995


"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.


Menachem Begin
Prime Minister of Israel
1977 - 1983


"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya (=Jewish immigration), and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country."
-- Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.

"The settlement of the Land of Israel is the essence of Zionism. Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It's that simple."
-- Yitzhak Shamir, Maariv, 02/21/1997.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988


Yizhak Shamir
Prime Minister of Israel
1983 - 1984,
1986 - 1992


"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.


Benjamin Netanyahu
Prime Minister of Israel
1996 - 1999

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....
-- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.



Ehud Barak
Prime Minister of Israel
1999 - 2001


"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online
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Zadnje uređivanje enemy combantant : 07.03.2007. at 17:24.
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Old 07.03.2007., 13:17   #2
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Quote:
enemy combantant kaže: Pogledaj post
Pitanje je jednostavno: smatrate li da je cionizam(Zidovski nacionalizam) rasisticki pokret?

Cionizam je ideja i pokret židova s ciljem stvaranja židovske države nastao u 18. stoljeću, a danas (tj. otkako Izrael postoji) mu je cilj očuvanje te države kao domovine svih Židova.

http://lexicorient.com/e.o/zionism.htm

Rasistički? Zašto misliš? Zbog Arapa u Izraelu? Arapi i Židovi su Semiti, dakle iste rase. Ima Židova i crne rase, tako da rasistički nije.
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Old 07.03.2007., 13:25   #3
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u izraelu živi milijun i pol arapa sa svim građanskim pravima.
cionizam je pokret za uspostavu i očuvanje države izrael, međutim njih etnička, ili rasna čistoća nije opterećivala, niti su je ikad zastupali.
prije negoli počnete s palestinskim izbjeglicama trubit, treba reći da je u vrijeme kad se to desilo preko milijun židova PRISILNO došlo u izrael iz susjednih arapskih država odake su istjerani i oteta im imovina.
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Old 07.03.2007., 13:56   #4
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rasisticna je u istoj mjeri u kojoj je teznja hrvata da imaju svoju drzavu rasisticna u odnosu na srbe, teznja srba da imaju svoju drzavu rasisticna u odnosu na hrvate, teznja bosanaca da imaju svoju drzavu rasisticna u odnosu na srbe i hrvate, albanaca u odnosu na makedonce, makedonaca u odnosu na grke, tutsija u odnosu na hutue, bantu crnaca u odnosu na pigmejce i zemljana u odnosu na zelene reptile
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Old 07.03.2007., 14:23   #5
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Izrael je postojao do prije nekih 2000 godina,neznam sad tocan datum a nije ni bitno.Dosli su razni okupatori i vecina Zidova je emigrirala,postali su manjina.Na tim prostorima su stoljecima u miru zivjeli Arapi i Zidovi pod stalnim okupacijama svih mogucih sila.Tek kada su zidovi sa Zapada odlucili obnoviti svoju prastadu domovinu doslo je do problema.
Povezati cu slucaj Izraela sa necim u sto se mi Balkanci bolje razumijemo - Bosna.
Bosna je bila sastavni dio Hrvatskog teritorija sve do invazije Turaka prije nekih 600-700 godina.
Prema toj logici mi Hrvati koji nismo vecina u Bosni bi imali pravo okupirati je i prikljuciti Hrvatskoj bez problema.
Ja sam protiv takve politike ali eto primjecujem slicnosti i dvostruke standarde.
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Old 07.03.2007., 14:34   #6
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bosna nij bila sastavni dio hrvatskog teritorija prije turaka, već samo jedan dio. osim toga, bosanski muslimani su potomci autohrtonog stanovništva ovih postora.
židovi nisu nikad dobili sve što su imali prije 2000 godina. prvotno su prostali samo na pola teritorija palestinskog mandatnog područja (danas sigurno neće, nakon svih sranja).
priča se može usporedit s ovom- bila je država hrvatska, pa su došli turci i sveli je na ostatke ostataka i raselili hrvate. na taj prostor se naseljavaju srbi. no hrvati i dalje inzistiraju da je to hrvatska, makar su u srbu i lapcu 2% bili.
isto tako su rimljani i drugi raeelili židove. poslje se tu naseljavaju arapi, no židovi i dalje smatraju da imaju pravi na taj prostor.
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Old 07.03.2007., 14:43   #7
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Da to oni misle.Ali Zemlja je prometna planeta,nitko nemoze rezervirati teritorij pa ga napustiti i onda ocekivati povratak.Nismo na parkiralistu.
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Old 07.03.2007., 14:49   #8
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nisu ga oni napustili, već su istjerani. miliš li ti da će hrvati i bošnjaci iz RS-a ikad, pa iz 2000. godina ako budu postojali ti narodi, to smatrat srpskim?
zašto su hrvati tražili uporno da im se vrate područja vojne krajine sa srpskom večinom, koja su pred turcima "napustili" tj. istjerani su i nije ih bilo par stoljeća? zašto su srb, korenica, dvor i lapac s 2% hrvata danas u hrvatskoj?
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Old 07.03.2007., 15:07   #9
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Dobro,dobro nije to sve cisto jasno mi je.Ali sto se Izraela tice ljudi namaju pojma sto se tamo dogada.Da su granice ostale onakve kakvima ih je UN odredio 1947 nebi bilo problema ali Izrael se stalno siri.

Na papiru svi su gradani Izraela jednaki ali u praksi stvari su drugacije.

Vodje Izraela su ratni zlocinci koji su ponosni na svoja dijela.
Jedan od njih je rekao da Arapi trebaju emigrirati iz Izraela(Palestine) i da je jedini nacin da ostanu ako postanu robovi.

Takvi ljudi vode Izrael i to je temelj njihove politike.
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Old 07.03.2007., 15:28   #10
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izrael se širio uvijek nakon što bi bio napadnut. židovi su prihvatili rezoluciju UN-a 1947., ali arapi nisu i odmah su počeli rat protiv novostvorene države. malo je falilo da ih poraze, ali se sreća okrenula. nakon toga se izrael proširio kolko je god mogao, kao i u ratu 1967.
palestinci još nisu odustali od cilja uništanja izraela i tu je problem. nisu židovi ludi da im daju državu od teritorija koji kontroliraju, koja će ovima bit poligon za daljnje terorističke napade a možda i za koju lansirnu rampu za neko drugo oružje koje će doć iz irana.
neprijatelj, ma koliko je u datom momentu jadan, ako te i dalje želi uništiti, je jednako opasan.
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Old 07.03.2007., 15:42   #11
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Bas kako je čika Slavni Izraelac rekao: "Nasa taktika je uvijek bila da provociramo Arape a kad bi se suprotstavili imali smo razlog da ih unistimo" - u slobodnom prijevodu.
Bas sam prosli tjedan citao te predivne izjave iz najciviliziranije drzave Istoka sad ih nemogu pronac.Pitat cu kolege Palestince da mi ustupe svoja stiva pa cu postati ovdje.
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Old 07.03.2007., 15:51   #12
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cionizam je u praksi židovski nacizam
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Old 07.03.2007., 15:53   #13
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Evo jedno istinito stivo koje predstavlja pravi Izrael.
Nadam se da sprehate ingliš.


I am Israel

Published August 4th, 2006 in Islamic Issues and World Issues.(of course, NOT by me)

i-am-israel

I am Israel - I came to a land without a people for a people without a land. Those people who happened to be here, had no right to be here, and my people showed them they had to leave or die, razing 480 Palestinian villages to the ground, erasing their history.

I am Israel - some of my people committed massacres and later became Prime Ministers to represent me. In 1948, Menachem Begin was in charge of the unit that slaughtered the inhabitants of Deir Yassin, including 100 men, women, and children. In 1953, Ariel Sharon led the slaughter of the inhabitants of Qibya, and in 1982 arranged for our allies to butcher around 2,000 in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla.

I am Israel - carved in 1948 out of 78% of the land of Palestine, dispossessing its inhabitants and replacing them with Jews from Europe and other parts of the world. While the natives whose milies lived on this land for thousands of years are not allowed to return, Jews from all over the world are welcome to instant citizenship.

I am Israel - in 1967, I swallowed the remaining lands of Palestine - the West Bank and Gaza - and placed their inhabitants under an oppressive military rule, controlling and humiliating every aspect of their daily lives. Eventually, they should get the message that they are not welcome to stay, and join the millions of Palestinian refugees in the shanty camps of Lebanon and Jordan.

I am Israel - I have the power to control American policy. My American Israel Public Affairs Committee can make or break any politician of its choosing, and as you see, they all compete to please me. All the forces of the world are powerless against me, including the UN as I have the American veto to block any condemnation of my war crimes. As Sharon so eloquently
phrased it, "We control America".

I am Israel - I influence American mainstream media too, and you will always find the news tailored to my favor. I have invested millions of dollars into PR representation, and CNN, New York Times, and others have been doing an excellent job of promoting my propaganda. Look at other international news sources and you will see the difference.

I am Israel - and you Palestinians want to negotiate "peace!"? But you are not as smart as me; I will negotiate, but will only let you have your municipalities while I control your borders, your water, your airspace, and anything else of importance. While we "negotiate," I will swallow your
hilltops and fill them with settlements, populated by the most extremist of my extremists, armed to the teeth. These settlements will be connected with roads you cannot use, and you will be imprisoned in your little Bantustans between them, surrounded by checkpoints in every direction.

I am Israel - with the fourth strongest army in the world, possessing nuclear weapons. How dare your children confront my oppression with stones, don't you know my soldiers won't hesitate to blow their heads off? In 17 months, I have killed 900 of you and injured 17,000, mostly civilians, and have the mandate to continue since the international community remains
silent. Ignore, as I do, the hundreds of Israeli soldiers who are now refusing to carry out my control over your lands and people; their voices of conscience will not protect you.

I am Israel - and you want freedom? I have bullets, tanks, missiles, Apaches, and F-16's, to obliterate you. I have placed your towns under siege, confiscated your lands, uprooted your trees, demolished your homes, and you still demand freedom? Don't you get the message? You will never have peace or freedom, because I am Israel.
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Old 07.03.2007., 17:29   #14
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Evo dodao sam neke citate u prvi post da se lakse nade.To su rijeci iz Cionistickih usta.
Kad bi neko od nasih pricao takve stvati pjevusio bi u Haagu.
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Old 07.03.2007., 17:39   #15
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cionisti su sada najveci nacisti koji sada postoje...
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Old 07.03.2007., 17:49   #16
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Cudna li pitanja . Za mene je cionizam isto sto i rasizam cak mozda i malo gore od toga jer rasizma je boja koze a ipak goje su svi nezidovi , nek me neko isparavi ako grijesim
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Old 07.03.2007., 17:51   #17
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cionisti su sada najveci nacisti koji sada postoje...
Aha al to nesmijes rec,ako Izraelca nazivas nacistom imas 99% sansi da ce te proglasiti anti-semitom ato je vec gadna mrlja u zivotopisu.
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Old 07.03.2007., 18:03   #18
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Aha al to nesmijes rec,ako Izraelca nazivas nacistom imas 99% sansi da ce te proglasiti anti-semitom ato je vec gadna mrlja u zivotopisu.
afkors, nabijaju na nos, i stvarno mislim da je jedna od najgorih blamaza ikada, a mozes i u buksi zavrsit ako seres ista za zidove. a ovi umjesto da se bore da ikada se ponovi to sto su radili njima, oni to sada rade drugima... valjda dio pogodbe - na vam drzava, ali razbite sve oko sebe
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Old 07.03.2007., 18:07   #19
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Cudna li pitanja . Za mene je cionizam isto sto i rasizam cak mozda i malo gore od toga jer rasizma je boja koze a ipak goje su svi nezidovi , nek me neko isparavi ako grijesim
Jel i meni se cini.Inace ta mrznja je najotvorenija na podrucju West Bank u Palestini ako neko zna di je to.
Cijeli svijet vidi i zna da je tamo ilegalno okupiran velik dio teritorija i svi nezidovi koji su se susreli sa Izraelskim doseljenicima koji tamo zive znaju o cemu pricam.

Ima na You Tube videa na kojima se vide Izraelci - civili kako kamenuju reportere i ostale nezidove i tjeraju ih sa "svoje" zemlje,i sve to dok Izraelski vojnici mirno promatraju taj topli docek stranaca.
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Old 07.03.2007., 18:13   #20
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THE dzubre kaže: Pogledaj post
afkors, nabijaju na nos, i stvarno mislim da je jedna od najgorih blamaza ikada, a mozes i u buksi zavrsit ako seres ista za zidove. a ovi umjesto da se bore da ikada se ponovi to sto su radili njima, oni to sada rade drugima... valjda dio pogodbe - na vam drzava, ali razbite sve oko sebe
Zbog tog teritorija bi se sigurno vodilo jos ratova,ipak tamo su sveta mjesta za Zidove,Krscane i Muslimane a poznato je da se u ime Boga svasta zapocinje.
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