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Old 08.03.2008., 14:08   #1
Dragoner
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Sastav JNA 1990

Hello! Sorry for using english, but my croatian is very bad.

I am working on an Order of Battle (you would say "sastav" or "ustroj", I believe) of former JNA on www.tank-net.org forum (you can find the original posting there at the military history section). I also have a thread here, but in the politics section.
I hope to be on the right subforum now and to get some additional information.
A first version of the OOB already was published. You can download it here:


http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/bojan/JNA%20OOB.pdf


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Old 08.03.2008., 14:09   #2
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some of the (major) units identified during the last weeks after publishing first edition of JNA OOB:



316. Light Air Defense Artillery Regiment, Beograd-Zvezdara

351. Signal Regiment, Sarajevo-Lukavica - A

River Flotilla, HQ at Novi Sad
including
93. River Center („93. Recni Centar"), Novi Sad (special forces/divers unit)

151. Motorized Brigade, Beograd (possibly still was Infantry Brigade)
7. Infantry Brigade, Krusevac
32. Light Infantry Brigade, Valjevo - R
28. Infantry Regiment, Paracin
37. Infantry Brigade, Raska (possibly was Motorized Brigade already)
473. Infantry Brigade, Gornji Milanovac
176. Mixed Anti-Tank Regiment, Titograd
135. Infantry Brigade, Surdulica
175. Infantry Brigade, Leskovac
84. Motorized Brigade, Bitola
156. Infantry Brigade, Strumica
52. Mixed Anti-Tank Regiment, Urosevac
32. Light Air Defense Artillery Regiment, Varazdin

86. Protection Regiment, Split (established about 1990)
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Old 08.03.2008., 14:10   #3
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I'm still not quite sure about some other Brigades/Regiments. Can anyone confirm if they did exist in 1990 or not?

50. or 148. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Aleksinac
2. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Nis
3. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Ivangrad
20. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Pozarevac
21. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Svetozarevo
27. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Kraljevo
58. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Leposavic
35. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Mladenovac
127. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Novi Sad
129. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Apatin
134. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Titovo Uzice
150. Motorized Regiment, Beograd
153. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Obrenovac
504. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Beograd
805. Infantry Brigade/Regiment, Prokuplje
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Old 08.03.2008., 17:47   #4
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I believe that your best bet would be to get in contact with Ivan Bajlo, he is an enthusiast like you and is running the website www.vojska.net (vojska is croatian for military), and from my brief check on his site, he already has OOBs of Yugoslavia in different time periods (and of other Balkan countries, former and contemporary).

This is link to his site: http://www.vojska.net/ and link to OOBs of former JNA http://www.vojska.net/eng/armed-forces/yugoslavia/ . You should probably check with him (or check on the site), on if data shown there is free for use.

Ivan does check this forum as well, but I believe he does it less frequently, maybe on weekly basis so your best bet is to email him.
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Old 08.03.2008., 20:22   #5
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Thank you for your support, Saber, but i knew the vojska-net page already - and the OOB there in many cases is rather incomplete or, even worse, wrong.
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Old 08.03.2008., 22:39   #6
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Quote:
Dragoner kaže: Pogledaj post
Thank you for your support, Saber, but i knew the vojska-net page already - and the OOB there in many cases is rather incomplete or, even worse, wrong.
In that case apologies , I guess you'll either have to wait for help from someone else on this forum, or find some other sources.

Good luck.
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Old 14.03.2008., 20:13   #7
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Logistics Base / Pozadinska Baza:


HQ
Quartermaster Plt
Signal Plt
Light Air Defense Artillery/Missile Plt
Veterinary Plt
Medical Co
Company for Preventive Medicine
NBC Defense Plt
Construction Detachment
Water Supply Co
Transportation Co
Supply Bn
Military Bakery
Maintenance Bn
one or more Maintenance Workshop(s)
several (in some cases a dozen or more) storage facilites (ammu, fuel etc.)

NOTE: number of storage facilities differed widely
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Old 17.03.2008., 16:32   #8
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Quote:
Dragoner kaže: Pogledaj post
Thank you for your support, Saber, but i knew the vojska-net page already - and the OOB there in many cases is rather incomplete or, even worse, wrong.
I slowed down the my work and left several mistakes deliberately beacuse my OOB's were being copy pasted all over the web without anyone bothering to ask me for permission let alone check it for accuracy - giving me credit for my work belonged in Science fiction department.

I got very large area of military history to cover so I've moved to ones which aren't that much interesting to thieves.
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Old 17.03.2008., 23:25   #9
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I'm not quite sure about how I should understand your message.
If you download my OOB you will find each and every source listed (see "References"). So be careful calling other people "thieves".

Vojska.net is an interesting project and I would be thankful for any kind of cooperation. But as far as I could see till now, for the vojska.net 1991 OOB only several public sources, most of them easily to find, were utilized.

Let me give you an example: You list a "86th Guards Motorized Infantry Corps" at Split. That's mentioned in the Kadijevic-book on JNA. This is the only source for this "Corps". But of course such a Corps never did exist. It was simply a typo in the book, I guess. In fact it was the 86. motorizovani zaštitni puk, the 86th Motorized Protection Regiment of VPO.

How one should interprete this use of sources and this use of facts?
You didn't know better.
That's no accusation.
You know better?
Then you're welcome.
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Old 18.03.2008., 00:11   #10
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Quote:
Dragoner kaže: Pogledaj post
I'm not quite sure about how I should understand your message.
If you download my OOB you will find each and every source listed (see "References"). So be careful calling other people "thieves".
I wrote OOB's, if you search the net you can find several of my OOB's in several places completely identical including all factual errors and typos, of course no mention of either me or my website, recently I even learned that section of my website was copy pasted in one book manuscript despite the fact that I have clearly stated which book I have used to write it and book has much more detailed info - how lazy can someone be???

Quote:
Dragoner kaže: Pogledaj post
How one should interprete this use of sources and this use of facts?
You didn't know better.
That's no accusation.
You know better?
Then you're welcome.
As I said I got little tired with constantly fixing the OOB's while scavengers would simply come and copy paste everything so I don't work so much on the Yugo wars and moved back to older conflicts since those aren't as interesting to copy pasters.
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Old 18.03.2008., 22:48   #11
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Are you an expert in military history or in copryright matters?
However, that's a fruitless discussion.
Just want to point out: My OOB published at tank-net is free to the public for private use and I'm not interested in any credits, I'm not interested in beeing mentioned or whatever else, I'm just interested in facts.
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Old 19.03.2008., 00:27   #12
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Quote:
Dragoner kaže: Pogledaj post
Are you an expert in military history or in copryright matters?
However, that's a fruitless discussion.
Just want to point out: My OOB published at tank-net is free to the public for private use and I'm not interested in any credits, I'm not interested in beeing mentioned or whatever else, I'm just interested in facts.
I was like that, I cared very little about my copyrights when I started whole thing but when other people started taking credit for my work and presenting it as their own I started getting very angry...
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Old 21.03.2008., 23:08   #13
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The 622. Motorized Brigade in 1990 was at Petrinja, that's a fact.
The sun is rising every morning, that's a fact.
Yesterday is the day before today, that's a fact.
Mr. Bajlo want's to be credidet for putting facts together.
So I herewith declare that Mr. Bajlo owns the copyright on the 622. Motorized Brigade being at Petrinja in 1990, the sun rising and yesterday being yesterday.
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Old 22.03.2008., 00:42   #14
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Drop it.

Saint Curtis is not amused.
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Old 22.03.2008., 12:33   #15
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Quote:
Dragoner kaže: Pogledaj post
Mr. Bajlo want's to be credidet for putting facts together.
So I herewith declare that Mr. Bajlo owns the copyright on the 622. Motorized Brigade being at Petrinja in 1990, the sun rising and yesterday being yesterday.
WTF are you talking about??? I can't wait for you OOB to get published in some book or website without any reference to you and that person claiming all credit for putting all FACTS together himself since apparently you don't mind people stealing your work.
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Old 22.03.2008., 22:30   #16
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Here is an example of how do LOSERs steal other people work and claim it for themselves... and this guy, Richard M. Bennett, claims to be some sort of respected military analyst with several books on Amazon written by him!??? Did he copy/paste those as well?

http://orbat.com/site/history/volume...rmy%202000.pdf is copy/paste of my very bad and older version 1998 ORBAT http://www.vojska.net/eng/armed-forc...nization/1998/ which has less info then Croatian version http://www.vojska.net/hrv/oruzane-sn...a/ustroj/1998/ since I have been lazy to keep both pages updated since I'm constantly fixing something...

And I have updated brigade listed several times fixing many errors http://www.vojska.net/eng/armed-forces/croatia/brigade/ and virtually none of these brigades no longer exists, with last few being reformed into 6xx brigades during 1999-2000, also mr. Bennet seems to have picked list of key brigades based on units with nicknames despite the fact that almost all brigades had some nickname but I've listed only those which I knew at the time he copied the list.
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Old 22.03.2008., 23:25   #17
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Ivan, please, calm down. I can understand your anger about such people claiming to have done a work that was made by others. I just wanted to point out that I'm not interested in any copyright. If you like to use my OOB - you're free to do so. If you are a nice guy, you will mention the source and say, ok, this was Dragoners and Bojans work. If not - I don't care. If you can add anything or make corrections, please do it and let me know. I just want to make the OOB as complete as possible. That's all.

BTW: We are working on an updated version now, it will be published the next days.
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Old 27.03.2008., 20:09   #18
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And here's the new edition:

http://elektron.tmf.bg.ac.yu/bojan/JNA%20OOB%20new.pdf
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Old 27.03.2008., 20:37   #19
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Good job, Dragoner.
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Old 28.03.2008., 15:49   #20
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Tank's Tyndall. I just wonder why NO-ONE at this forum can contribute ANYTHING. Well, except of copyright issues
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