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Old 11.08.2009., 22:11   #1
Vadim Verenich
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Korijeni plemićke loze Vrančić i veze sa Verenich..

Bok and a warm greetings from Byelorussia,

This is my first message on this forum. Please excuse me, but I can not write in Croatian, hence i will address to fellow members of this forum in English.
For last 5 years i've been conducting the research of my genealogical roots. Since my family - Werenicz-Stachowski - belonged to the petty nobility (so called "zagrodowa szlachta") of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (prior to 1798), there is a plenty of historical records in state archives of Byelorus,Lithuania, Russia and Poland (and there are a lot of references to my family history). Therefore, i was able to trace my ancestral direct line back to year 1488 (this is the earliest mention of my earliest known ancestor), when Wasyl, prince of Pinsk and his mother granted a land to Woloszyn (a polish word with the same meaning as Croatian "Vlas") and his "brothers" Hodor (Todor) and Paszko )Pavel). The exact spelling of family name was different at that time, the general register of Lithuanian army in 1569 lists among other noble militants a certain Hryn (Hieronim) Werunicz (Verunic,Верюнич), who is my direct male ancestor according to the official genealogy (submitted in 1802 to Assembly of Nobility of Minsk province, Russian Empire). It has been proved by relevant documents, that two branches of my family are descending from two brothers, Simun (Simeon) and Dmitar (Mitar, Dmitri), who were first to settle in the district of Pinsk somewhere in the middle of XV century. Dmitar is believed to be a father of Wolozsyn, Hodko and Paszko, mentioned in 1488 year. He is the common ancestor of two major subbranches of my family - Hacewicz (Гацевичъ) and Paszkowicz (Пашковичъ). From elder brother - Simun - the branches of Hryniewicz (Гриневичъ) and Zelewicz (Зелевичъ)-Stachowski (and i am one of many heirs to the latter line).

There is an old family legend, according to which "the line comes from the 13th century Serbian family, they came to Poland around 1380, settling around Pinsk: Verenich family comes from a military family fighting against the Mongols in the mid 13th century". However, this legend seemed to me a little bit improbable. There is no direct historical record except for similarity of surname (surname Verenich could have same etymology as Vrancic, - ворон, вран). Honestly speaking i was sceptical of legend and in order to clarify this matter i've undertaken DNA test. The result was predictable, but nevertheless difficult for interpretation. My Y-chromosome haplogroup is I2a2-Dinaric. My closest matches (except for one russian and one person for Bulgaria) are all from Slovenia,Slovakia and Croatia; among others Jarok (Jarab),Jarebic, Matusic, Illic, Tendžera-Vukovic, Radej, Kulenic,Medved (Medvedojevic?), Zorko, Komic, Gracanin etc. I've searched over Google Books library, it seems like all of them claimed the descent from the narrow geographical region, bordering with Herzegovina (Trebunje,Konovlie,Uskoplje), Boka Kotorska, Primorije and Dalmatia (Zadar, Dubrovnik). Now i am lost. In a book, written by Kukeljevic i have found information about family Vrancic from Sibenik (of presumable Bosnian origin), there are different unconnected references to Vrancics in historical records of Bakar, Zadar, Trogir, Split and Dubrovnik. There is also hypothetical link between Vrancic family (from Zahumlje? Boka Kotorska?) and famous clan of Upper-Zetan rulers, Crnojevics.

Now i am really lost, is there any hope to dig up genealogical connections in available historical information? Please advise me.


Thank you very much in advance.
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Old 11.08.2009., 22:28   #2
Vadim Verenich
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As far as i know,I2a2 DNA haplogroup is very common in Bosnia, Herzegovina as well as on Dalmatian seashore and islands Hvar and Krk.

http://forum.molgen.org/index.php?ac...tach=224;image

http://forum.molgen.org/index.php?ac...tach=225;image


http://forum.molgen.org/index.php?ac...tach=256;image
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Old 11.08.2009., 23:47   #3
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i don't know,but be sure to google Faust Vrancic
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Old 12.08.2009., 01:46   #4
žalac_1
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Welcome, Vadim Verenich


Try to contact Croatian genealogical society "Hrvatsko rodoslovno društvo-Pavao Ritter Vitezović"- http://www.rodoslovlje.hr/ (you can find email on - O društvu --> Kontakt.)
Croatian surnames are analyzed in books of Petar Šimunović, newest is Hrvatski prezimenik (on this forum we have topic about surnames- Prezimena - http://www.forum.hr/showthread.php?t=93460&page=45, it is possible to get some short info from Šimunović's books)

For informations about people and surnames from 14.century only reliable sources are documents stored in historical archives (Državni arhiv Split and better for this,Državni arhiv Zadar). But if something is not publicated, then....come to archive and try to "dig out" alone (money,time,enormous patience) or contact and employ proffesional researchers (expensive).

You can find surname Vrančić in small town Vrlika.
Also, i need to mention bishop Antun Vrančić, from Šibenik, died 1573. in Presov (Slovakia). In hungarian registers he was named- Antal Verancsics.

There is also similar toponym Verunić (Verunich), village on Dugi otok island in Zadar archipelago.

----------
first what attracted my attention, names of your ancestors Paszko, Simun, Hieronim and Dmitar are very very similiar to croatian names Paško, Šimun, Jeronim, Dmitar (Mitar). Especially, Paško and Šimun -these are "original" Croatian variants of names Pavel and Simeon, they are specific for Croatians living in region Dalmatia and you cant find them among orthodox Serbs or in Serbia.
So it makes little confusion for me when you mentioned in family legend that they were Serbians or came from Serbia.

Also period of mid-XV century when your ancestors settled land near Pinsk is parallel with period of military campaign of hungarian-croatian king Louis Anjou (Ludwik Węgierski ) in medieval Polish-Lithuanian union.
In 1370. he was crowned as king of Poland, so he established political relations between Croatian and Hungarian kingdom and Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. So it became almost as one state under strong rule of Ludwik.

In my opinion,it is possible that some people from Croatia in millitary service arrived in Poland, as vassals/soldiers/mercenaries of their king Ludovik/Ludwik, and settled area where they received king's land as benefit and mark of their favour and loyality


sorry, need to refresh my English

Zadnje uređivanje žalac_1 : 12.08.2009. at 11:46.
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Old 12.08.2009., 10:42   #5
Vadim Verenich
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Thank you very much for your advise.

Sorry for offtopic, please feel free to move my post to appropriate thread.

Sincerely,
Vadim Verenich
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Old 12.08.2009., 11:38   #6
žalac_1
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Korijeni plemićke loze Vrančić i veze sa Verenich..

Ako tko ima kakve informacije o Vrančićima (od 14.-15.st.), o podrijetlu tog "plemena" i o samom prezimenu, nek pomogne našem članu iz Bjelorusije.
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