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Old 26.01.2010., 20:00   #1
Gilles de Rais.
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Na ovoj temi mozete navoditi misli i rijeci velikih i znacajnih istorijskih osoba. Za pocetak, Fridrih Veliki:


"One should constantly analyze the situation in which one finds himself: What plan would I form if I were the enemy? After imagining several, one should think about what means to use to counter the plans, and immediately correct anything that is defective in one's position."


"A commander should act on his own. The secret of war is never found in councils of war. The general should talk of war from time to time with the most enlightened generals of his army, and if, in free conversation, they offer good advice, he should profit by it without remarking who has found a good thing, but onceit is executed with success, he should say, in the presence of a big group of officers: It is to so-and-so that I owe the success in this affair. You flatter the egos of others, you win friends."


"It is an ancient rule of war. If you separate your forces, you will be beaten in detail; if you want to give battle, assemble as many troops as you can; no better way is known to put them to better use."


"In general, campaign projects have to be adjusted to conditions (time, weather), the number of enemy... The more one foresees obstacles to his plans, the less one will find of them later in the execution. In a word, everything must be foreseen; find the problems and resolve them. The principal work of a general is in his office, devising projects, combining ideas; to foresee the designs of the enemy, anticipate them, and keep the enemy disturbed. But that is not enough; he must also be active, and see that what he orders is executed, that he sees everything himself. He must observe the enemy camps and their guards, and walk the battle line frequently to get familiar with it; then if he is attacked by an improvisor, nothing will be new to him."


"If you want to gain the affection of the soldier, do not wear him out or expose him to danger unless it is necessary. Be his father, and not his executioner. Kindness and severity work alternately with the soldier; a general should make himself popular: talk with the soldiers, both when you pass their tents or when they are on the march. Sample often to see if the cookpots have something good; find out their small needs and do what you can to satisfy them; spare them unnecessary exertion. But let fall the full vigor of the law on the mutinous soldier, the backbiter, the pillager, when necessary order the severest punishment for deserters."


"Hunger will defeat a man more surely than the courage of his adversary, but, as the loss of a convoy or a depot will not lose a war, winning battles must come first; it is necessary to consider both factors in deciding how to win.
Whatever beautiful plan you have dreamed up, you will not be able to execute it if your soldiers have not been well fed. Part of controlling mercenaries is being constantly certain that the troops lack for nothing, not bread, or meat, or wine. In studying the reasons for desertion one should find out if the soldier regularly receives his pay and all the small comforts due him, or if his captain is guilty of misappropriation."


"The most difficult campaigns are those in which one is opposed by many strong enemies. Militarily, it is necessary to know how to lose ground to advantage, sacrifice a province to one enemy, and march with all your forces against the others, make them fight a battle, make your best effort to destroy them, then march away and hit the others. I prefer the audacity of a general who risks a battle, for he has everything to gain and even if he loses, there is always the option of the defensive."


"Marching into battle it is mandatory that the general boldly ride ahead, that he reconnoiter the terrain himself, from one end to the other, so that he will have several possible plans and positions in mind in case he encounters the enemy. Knowledge and choise of terrain are the most essential things; but, knowing them, you must know how to profit by placing the troops where they can be most effective. Most modern battle orders are ineffective in that they always follow the same plan, without regard to the terrain. In choosing a position, profit from every swamp, stream, inundation, or obstacle that will narrow the front, because it is not your entrenchments that stop the enemy, but the troops that you concentrate to oppose him."


"Everything which the enemy least expects will succeed the best."


"I am up and about when I am ill, and in the most appalling weather. I am on
horseback when other men would be flat out on their beds, complaining. We
are made for action, and activity is the sovereign remedy for all physical ills."


"It is your attitude, and the suspicion that you are maturing the boldest
designs against him, that imposes on your enemy."


"The most certain way of insuring victory is to march briskly and in good
order against the enemy, always endeavoring to gain ground."


"A defensive war is apt to betray us into too frequent detachment. Those
generals who have had but little experience attempt to protect every point,
while those who are better acquainted with their profession, having only
the capital object in view, guard against a decisive blow, and acquiesce in
small misfortunes to avoid greater."


"Without supplies no army is brave"


"The greatest and noblest pleasure which men can have in this world is to discover new truths; and the next is to shake off old prejudices."


"Being goal directed is not enough to conquer your enemy. To achieve your goal you need to know and be able to utilize all the resources available to you. This includes the knowledge of all those available to you as well as using the physical resources and those who control them."


“Religion is the idol of the mob; it adores everything it does not understand.”


"All religions must be tolerated, for every man must get to heaven in his own way."


“A man who seeks truth and loves it must be reckoned precious to any human society.”


“He who defends everything defends nothing.”


“A German singer! I should as soon expect to get pleasure from the neighing of my horse.”


“The truth is always the strongest argument. Sophocles Truth is a thing immortal and perpetual, and it gives to us a beauty that fades not away in time.”


“I begin by taking. I shall find scholars later to demonstrate my perfect right.”


“My people and I have come to an agreement which satisfied us both. They are to say what they please, and I am to do what I please.”


“Superstition is the weakness of the human mind; it is inherent in that mind; it has always been, and always will be.”


"If my soldiers were to begin to think, not one would remain in the ranks.”


“Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl.”


“Don't forget your great guns which are the most respectable arguments of the rights of kings.”


“Always presume that the enemy has dangerous designs and always be forehanded with the remedy. But do not let these calculations make your timid.”


“If I wished to punish a province, I would have it governed by philosophers.”


"Diplomacy without arms is like music without instruments."








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Old 26.01.2010., 21:05   #2
lupac
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Periklo:

Ako ne vjeruje Periklu, neće pogriješiti ako pričeka najmudrijeg savjetnika - vrijeme
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Old 26.01.2010., 21:48   #3
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Alarik: tete roro mama nunu dada tete lala tete
Dobro, ne baš tako usloženo.
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Old 27.01.2010., 14:41   #4
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ajd ja ću se potruditi prevest ih na hrvatski

Tucydides, Grčki povesničar, poznat i kao otac "Znanstvene hitorije"

Pa kaže:
Temelj sreće je sloboda. Temelj slobode je hrabrost.

Močni rade što moraju napraviti, slabi prihvaćaju sto moraju prihvatiti... ovo mi više liči na citat iz Alan Forda ali OK

Nesreća je imati briljantne ljude na odgovornim položajima. Oni očekuju previše od običnih ljudi.

I meni najmilija i više puta citirana na ovom podforumu:
Rat je posljednja od svih stvari koja se odvija prema planu.
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Old 27.01.2010., 14:54   #5
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A Periklo kaže:
Ono što ostavite za sobom nije ono uklesano u kamene spomenike, nego utkano u ljudske živote.

ako se ne zanimate za politku ne znaći da se politika neće zanimati za vas

Vrijeme je najmudriji savjetnik

Sloboda je vlasništvo onih koje je imaju hrabrosti braniti
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Old 27.01.2010., 15:03   #6
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a Cezar je osim kocke rekao i:

Kukavice umiru mnogo puta prije svoje stvarne smrti.

Ljudi lako povjeruju u stvari za koje žele da su istinite.

Rađe bi bio prvi u nekom malom galskom selu nego drugi u Rimu.

Kad izvadite mač na dozvolite da vas ideje ljubavi, slažaljenja, čak ni lica vaših otaca, pokolebaju
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Old 27.01.2010., 17:06   #7
joe enter
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Zlo goveče!?
dovijeka june!



Njegoš
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Old 27.01.2010., 18:02   #8
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ubiše me, pi#ka li im majčina!

Kralj Aleksandar Karađorđević 1934.
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Old 28.01.2010., 08:11   #9
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Mi smo more krvi prolili za bratstvo i jedinstvo naših naroda.
E nećemo dozvoliti nikome da nam dira, da nam ruši i da nam ruje iz nutra to naše bratstvo i jedinstvo
Tito
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Old 28.01.2010., 21:32   #10
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DABOMA, idemo dalje:

*Niti jedan plan ne izdrži prvi susret s neprijateljem - Moltke

*Još jedna ovakva pobjeda i gotovi smo - Pir

*Bolje umrijeti na nogama, nego živjeti na koljenima - Napoleon

*Zašto citiraš zakon? Mi nosimo oružje - Pompej Veliki

*Za mene je svaki loš grk barbar, a svaki dobar barbar grk - aleksandar veliki

*Tvoja lakomost i tvoje pijanstvo su te upropastili antioše, jer namjeravao si ispiti carstvo arašida u jednom velikom gutljaju - Fraat 2

*I tada će oni dodjelom sitnih povlastica zaboraviti more krvi što su je prolili za svoju slobodu - Cezar

*Daj poljacima vlast i uništit će sami sebe -Otto von prezime mu znate
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Zadnje uređivanje Scotsman : 29.01.2010. at 08:36. Reason: z
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Old 29.01.2010., 00:22   #11
Gilles de Rais.
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Quote:
Legion kaže: Pogledaj post
ajd ja ću se potruditi prevest ih na hrvatski



Moji citati su preveliki da bih ih prevodio, a vecina ljudi ionako dobro razumije engleski, te je to i nepotrebno.




Lenjin




"The Marxist doctrine is omnipotent because it is true. It is comprehensive and harmonious, and provides men with an integral world outlook irreconcilable with any form of superstition, reaction, or defence of bourgeois oppression. It is the legitimate successor to the best that man produced in the nineteenth century, as represented by German philosophy, English political economy and French socialism."


"Where the bourgeois economists saw a relation between things, Marx revealed a relation between people."


"Capital, created by the labour of the worker, crushes the worker, ruining small proprietors and creating an army of unemployed."


"When feudalism was overthrown and “free” capitalist society appeared in the world, it at once became apparent that this freedom meant a new system of oppression and exploitation of the working people."


"People always have been the foolish victims of deception and self-deception in politics, and they always will be until they have learnt to seek out the interests of some class or other behind all moral, religious, political and social phrases, declarations and promises."


"It is impossible completely to understand Marx’s Capital, and especially its first Chapter, without having thoroughly studied and understood the whole of Hegel’s Logic. Consequently, half a century later none of the Marxists understood Marx!"


"War cannot be abolished unless classes are abolished and Socialism is created."


"A revolutionary class cannot but wish for the defeat of its government in a reactionary war."


"If tomorrow, Morocco were to declare war on France, India on England, Persia or China on Russia, and so forth, those would be “just” “defensive” wars, irrespective of who attacked first; and every Socialist would sympathise with the victory of the oppressed, dependent, unequal states against the oppressing, slave-owning, predatory “great” powers."


"The war of 1914-18 was imperialist on the part of both sides; it was a war for the division of the world, for the partition and repartition of colonies and spheres of influence of finance capital."


"Monopolies, oligarchy, the striving for domination and not for freedom, the exploitation of an increasing number of small or weak nations by a handful of the richest or most powerful nations — all these have given birth to those distinctive characteristics of imperialism which compel us to define it as parasitic or decaying capitalism."


"Comrade Stalin, having become Secretary-General, has unlimited authority concentrated in his hands, and I am not sure whether he will always be capable of using that authority with sufficient caution. Stalin is too rude and this defect, although quite tolerable in our midst and in dealing among us Communists, becomes intolerable in a Secretary-General. That is why I suggest that the comrades think about a way of removing Stalin from that post and appointing another man in his stead."


"The real education of the masses can never be separated from their independent political, and especially revolutionary, struggle. Only struggle educates the exploited class. Only struggle discloses to it the magnitude of its own power, widens its horizon, enhances its abilities, clarifies its mind, forges its will."


"In the course of two years Soviet power in one of the most backward countries of Europe did more to emancipate women and to make their status equal to that of the “strong” sex than all the advanced, enlightened, “democratic” republics of the world did in the course of 130 years."


"Russia achieved Marxism—the only correct revolutionary theory—through the agony she experienced in the course of half a century of unparalleled torment and sacrifice, of unparalleled revolutionary heroism, incredible energy, devoted searching, study, practical trial, disappointment, verification, and comparison with European experience."


"All official and liberal science defends wage-slavery, whereas Marxism has declared relentless war on that slavery."


"Bourgeois democracy is democracy of pompous phrases, solemn words, exuberant promises and the high-sounding slogans of freedom and equality."


"Democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich — that is the democracy of capitalist society. The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class shall represent and repress them in parliament."








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Zadnje uređivanje Scotsman : 29.01.2010. at 08:35.
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Old 29.01.2010., 05:28   #12
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"Ljudski je pogrijesiti, a bozanski je oprostiti."

Plutarh
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Old 31.01.2010., 09:02   #13
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Quote:
Gilles de Rais. kaže: Pogledaj post


"The Marxist doctrine is omnipotent because it is true. It is comprehensive and harmonious, and provides men with an integral world outlook irreconcilable with any form of superstition, reaction, or defence of bourgeois oppression. It is the legitimate successor to the best that man produced in the nineteenth century, as represented by German philosophy, English political economy and French socialism."


"Where the bourgeois economists saw a relation between things, Marx revealed a relation between people."


"Capital, created by the labour of the worker, crushes the worker, ruining small proprietors and creating an army of unemployed."


"When feudalism was overthrown and “free” capitalist society appeared in the world, it at once became apparent that this freedom meant a new system of oppression and exploitation of the working people."


"People always have been the foolish victims of deception and self-deception in politics, and they always will be until they have learnt to seek out the interests of some class or other behind all moral, religious, political and social phrases, declarations and promises."


"It is impossible completely to understand Marx’s Capital, and especially its first Chapter, without having thoroughly studied and understood the whole of Hegel’s Logic. Consequently, half a century later none of the Marxists understood Marx!"


"War cannot be abolished unless classes are abolished and Socialism is created."


"A revolutionary class cannot but wish for the defeat of its government in a reactionary war."


"If tomorrow, Morocco were to declare war on France, India on England, Persia or China on Russia, and so forth, those would be “just” “defensive” wars, irrespective of who attacked first; and every Socialist would sympathise with the victory of the oppressed, dependent, unequal states against the oppressing, slave-owning, predatory “great” powers."


"The war of 1914-18 was imperialist on the part of both sides; it was a war for the division of the world, for the partition and repartition of colonies and spheres of influence of finance capital."


"Monopolies, oligarchy, the striving for domination and not for freedom, the exploitation of an increasing number of small or weak nations by a handful of the richest or most powerful nations — all these have given birth to those distinctive characteristics of imperialism which compel us to define it as parasitic or decaying capitalism."


"Comrade Stalin, having become Secretary-General, has unlimited authority concentrated in his hands, and I am not sure whether he will always be capable of using that authority with sufficient caution. Stalin is too rude and this defect, although quite tolerable in our midst and in dealing among us Communists, becomes intolerable in a Secretary-General. That is why I suggest that the comrades think about a way of removing Stalin from that post and appointing another man in his stead."


"The real education of the masses can never be separated from their independent political, and especially revolutionary, struggle. Only struggle educates the exploited class. Only struggle discloses to it the magnitude of its own power, widens its horizon, enhances its abilities, clarifies its mind, forges its will."


"In the course of two years Soviet power in one of the most backward countries of Europe did more to emancipate women and to make their status equal to that of the “strong” sex than all the advanced, enlightened, “democratic” republics of the world did in the course of 130 years."


"Russia achieved Marxism—the only correct revolutionary theory—through the agony she experienced in the course of half a century of unparalleled torment and sacrifice, of unparalleled revolutionary heroism, incredible energy, devoted searching, study, practical trial, disappointment, verification, and comparison with European experience."


"All official and liberal science defends wage-slavery, whereas Marxism has declared relentless war on that slavery."


"Bourgeois democracy is democracy of pompous phrases, solemn words, exuberant promises and the high-sounding slogans of freedom and equality."


"Democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich — that is the democracy of capitalist society. The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class shall represent and repress them in parliament."
Samo ovi cutati pokazuju da je nešto krenulo užasno užasno krivo...
ajmo dalje:

Kada ne znaš kamo ploviti, nijedan vjetar nije povoljan - seneka

Drill-narednici ne vladaju dugo - seneka

Za protestanta je najveći vjerski doživljaj patka za nedjeljnji ručak - hitler

da je rat okretanje molitvenih mlinova, indijci bi bili najbolji vojnici na svijetu
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Old 31.01.2010., 17:48   #14
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nije cilj poginit za svoju domovinu , nego natjerat drugog gada da pogine za svoju--paton
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Old 04.02.2010., 14:50   #15
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Quote:
von_ungern kaže: Pogledaj post
Samo ovi cutati pokazuju da je nešto krenulo užasno užasno krivo...



Danasnje stanje u svijetu jasno pokazuje ispravnost njegovih rijeci, a ako je u komunizmu nesto krenulo uzasno, uzasno krivo, sta bismo tek mogli reci za kapitalizam?


Ali ovo je ionako offtopic...




Riselje


"Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find an excuse in them to hang him."


"Secrecy is the first essential in affairs of state."


"War is one of the scourges with which it has pleased God to afflict men."


"Carry on any enterprise as if all future success depended on it."


"To know how to disguise is the knowledge of kings."


"Take away the sword; States can be saved without it."


"The pen is mightier than the sword."








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Old 04.02.2010., 15:11   #16
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Gilles de Rais. kaže: Pogledaj post
Danasnje stanje u svijetu jasno pokazuje ispravnost njegovih rijeci, a ako je u komunizmu nesto krenulo uzasno, uzasno krivo, sta bismo tek mogli reci za kapitalizam?
objasni
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Old 04.02.2010., 15:41   #17
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gilest ti je stara komunjara (bez uvrede ) i bolje da ni ne započinjete ovdje takvu raspravu.

Molim lijepo
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Old 01.03.2010., 01:14   #18
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Da malo ozivimo ovu temu...




Quote:
Legion kaže: Pogledaj post
gilest ti je stara komunjara (bez uvrede ) i bolje da ni ne započinjete ovdje takvu raspravu.

Molim lijepo



Nisam stara, vec mlada, a to je znak da za komunizam jos ima nade. Moze li se isto tvrditi za kapitalizam, kada je vrhunac elokventnog izrazavanja njegovih predstavnika stavljanje smajlica?


To je jasan i ubjedljiv dokaz kapitalisticke dekadentnosti.


Ali, da ne bismo bili offtopic... Jos malo Lenjina.




"What is Soviet power? What is the essence of this new power, which people in most countries still will not, or cannot, understand? The nature of this power, which is attracting larger and larger numbers of workers in every country, is the following: in the past the country was, in one way or another, governed by the rich, or by the capitalists, but now, for the first time, the country is being governed by the classes, and moreover, by the masses of those classes, which capitalism formerly oppressed. Even in the most democratic and freest republics, as long as capital rules and the land remains private property, the government will always be in the hands of a small minority, nine-tenths of which consist of capitalists, or rich men.

In this country, in Russia, for the first time in the world history, the government of the country is so organised that only the workers and the working peasants, to the exclusion of the exploiters, constitute those mass organisations known as Soviets, and these Soviets wield all state power. That is why, in spite of the slander that the representatives of the bourgeoisie in all countries spread about Russia, the word "Soviet" has now become not only intelligible but popular all over the world, has become the favourite word of the workers, and of all working people. And that is why, notwithstanding all the persecution to which the adherents of communism in the different countries are subjected, Soviet power must necessarily, inevitably, and in the not distant future, triumph all over the world.

We know very well that there are still many defects in the organisation of Soviet power in this country. Soviet power is not a miracle-working talisman. It does not, overnight, heal all the evils of the past- illiteracy, lack of culture, the consequences of a barbarous war, the aftermath of predatory capitalism. But it does pave the way to socialism. It gives those who were formerly oppressed the chance to straighten their backs and to an ever-increasing degree to take the whole government of the country, the whole administration of the economy, the whole management of production, into their own hands.

Soviet power is the road to socialism that was discovered by the masses of the working people, and that is why it is the true road, that is why it is invincible."








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Old 01.03.2010., 05:46   #19
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How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
Ronald Reagan
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Old 01.03.2010., 15:04   #20
Gilles de Rais.
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Dilberth kaže: Pogledaj post
How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
Ronald Reagan



Ako je Regan makar procitao Marksa, ja cu se... A o njegovom razumijevanju navedenog autora je izlisno i govoriti. Da bi se shvatile umne mogucnosti covjeka koji se usudio da donosi tako "visprene" zakljucke o komunistima, dovoljno je pogledati neke njegove bisere koje je izjavio tokom svog mandata. Poput ovih:


"All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a desk."

"Approximately 80% of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation, so let's not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough emission standards from man-made sources."

"But there are advantages to being elected President. The day after I was elected, I had my high school grades classified Top Secret."

"Going to college offered me the chance to play football for four more years." (Vidi se da je pazljivo proucavao Marksa tokom svojih studija! )

"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself."




A u pogledu njegove kompetentnosti da donosi zakljucke o jednoj ekonomskoj ideologiji, bitno je napomenuti sledece:

-tokom njegovog mandata deficit budzeta se kretao od 101 do 236 milijardi, dok je za vrijeme Jimmya Cartera iznosio od 40 do 74 milijarde.

-nacionalni dug je uvecan sa 1 triliona na 2 triliona dolara.

-federalni izdaci su se povecali za 22%, a vojska je odgovorna za vecinu.

-vrijednost dolara je smanjena za 6%.




Zaista si nasao pravog autoriteta koji moze da ukaze na mane i nedostatke komunizma. Ko je sledeci veliki ekspert? Churchill?


Ali, da se citav post ne bi pretvorio u citiranje americkih... , evo nesto zaista vrijedno i nezaboravno.


Tecumsehov odgovor guverneru Williamu Harrisonu


"Houses are built for you to hold councils in. The Indians hold theirs in the open air. I am a Shawnee. My forefathers were warriors. Their son is a warrior. From them I take my only existence. From my tribe I take nothing. I have made myself what I am. And I would that I could make the red people as great as the conceptions of my own mind, when I think of the Great Spirit that rules over us all. I would not then come to Governor Harrison to ask him to tear up the treaty.

But I would say to him, "Brother, you have the liberty to return to your own country." You wish to prevent the Indians from doing as we wish them, to unite and let them consider their lands as a common property of the whole. You take the tribes aside and advise them not to come into this measure. You want by your distinctions of Indian tribes, in allotting to each a particular, to make them war with each other. You never see an Indian endeavor to make the white people do this. You are continually driving the red people, when at last you will drive them into the great lake, where they can neither stand nor work.

Since my residence at Tippecanoe, we have endeavored to level all distinctions, to destroy village chiefs, by whom all mischiefs are done. It is they who sell the land to the Americans. Brother, this land that was sold, and the goods that was given for it, was only done by a few. In the future we are prepared to punish those who propose to sell land to the Americans. If you continue to purchase them, it will make war among the different tribes, and, at last I do not know what will be the consequences among the white people.

Brother, I wish you would take pity on the red people and do as I have requested. If you will not give up the land and do cross the boundary of our present settlement, it will be vary hard and produce great trouble between us.

The way, the only way to stop this evil, is for the red people to unite in claiming a common and equal right in the land, as it was at first, and should be now -- for it was never divided, but belongs to all.

No tribe has the right to sell, even to each other, much less to strangers.

Sell a country?! Why not sell the air, the great sea, as well as the earth? Did not the Great Spirit make them all for the use of his children?

How can we have confidence in the white people? We have good and just reasons to believe we have ample grounds to accuse the Americans of injustice, especially when such great acts of injustice have been committed by them upon our race, of which they seem to have no manner of regard, or even to reflect. When Jesus Christ came upon the earth you killed him and nailed him to the cross. You thought he was dead, and you were mistaken. You have the Shakers among you, and you laugh and make light of their worship. Everything I have told you is the truth. The Great Spirit has inspired me."








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