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Old 20.01.2015., 16:39   #1
Improve your English (in English, please!) II

A sequel of the previous thread.

Short instructions:

- All posts in this thread should be in English. For a specific language barrier that needs to be discussed in Croatian, there is another thread. Here your questions and comments should be in English only.

- Since the purpose of this thread is to practice English language as well, it is recommended that you correct each other. But, please, do it politely, and of course - in English.

- We do not do homework or free translation. The members will gladly help you with learning and understanding, so feel free to ask for help (do it in English, please) if stuck on something. But please don't ask members to translate large amounts of text for you or do your assignments.

- The thread is a mishmash of a sort - here we contemplate about Language, the Universe and Everything. You're very welcome to join us.
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Old 20.01.2015., 17:31   #2
I will repeat my question from the previous topic:
When are the capital letters used in scientific texts?
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Old 20.01.2015., 18:10   #3
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sunshinestar kaže: Pogledaj post
I will repeat my question from the previous topic:
When are the capital letters used in scientific texts?
To start a sentence?
Of all the cases not described here, i would mention specific names of organisms written using a capital letter for the genus name (e.g. Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori) - the name I know so well, being a person suffering from gastric ulcer disease). The same rule applies to taxon names, if i got the term right.
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Zadnje uređivanje Ivan Grozny : 20.01.2015. at 19:39.
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Old 20.01.2015., 18:16   #4
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drtorokandras kaže: Pogledaj post
Dear Croatian Users!

First of all forgive me posting my message to this topic, but I don't know what would be the best place for it.
I'm a hungarian doctor and would like to learn a slav language. I like your country and my first idea was to learn your language. Sometimes I travel to Poland and Slovakia and I would be happy if I could speak in those countries too. I have learned russian in the grammar school but it was hundred years before and of course I know it's a separate language.
What is your opinion about russian, slovak and polish language? As a croatian who has never learned those languages how easy is to speak in your own language and communicate as a simple tourist in those countries? What are your experiences about it?

Sorry again about this off-topic message and I would appreciate if anybody could help me either even via email.

Thank you very much.

Andras

([email protected])
The roots of the words in Slovak, Polish, Russian and Croatian are in the most cases same. But the prefixes, suffixes, and even root part of the words are changed during the time, so, the majority of the words are different. There are also false friends, sometimes same and similar words have little different meanings, sometimes same or similar words have wider or narrower meaning in different languages.
The Grammar patterns are same; like same cases, same genders of same words and so on, but the grammar endings are different.
The Slavic languages are more similar to each other in comparison to Hungarian and Finish thou.
Maybe something like German and Swedish? I am not sure...
Maybe something like Spanish and Romanian?
So, Even if the words are similar,if you speak in Poland and Slovakia it is hardly recognizable because because of different accent and different grammatical endings.
But in Bratislava, their dialect is more close to Croatian standard language than Slovak standard to Croatian standard.
But in Croatia we understand more Slovak and especially Russian because they have "more cleaner" pronunciation and accent in comparison to Czech and Polish.


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slafko kaže: Pogledaj post
Please pay attention. He said he travels to Poland and Slovakia occasionally. Croatian will not help him communicate better with the locals -- German will.
English will help him better than German, especially for young people.
And they don't like German language.
Even if they know it.

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drtorokandras kaže: Pogledaj post
Thank you. I have read somewhere that a Portuguese is able to slightly understand a Spanish and even talk with him, but it's not true conversely. One of my collegue's husband has polish father and he could speak with the slovak waiter quite easily. I was curious how does this work with croatian. Thank you.
Portuguese people can understand Spanish (without learning it), but Spanish native speaker won't understand Portugese.

Czech and Slovak are more close and similar to Polish, than Croatian.
Look at the map of Europe, there is continuum form Macedonia and Bulgaria to Russia (in two directions).
In "our" direction you have Slavic countries next to each other (with a distraction of Hungary and Austria ).
More the countries are closer, more the languages are similar.


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slafko kaže: Pogledaj post
Of course not. Dutch language is basically a person trying to decide whether to speak English or German while having a seizure. Croatian, while similar to Polish and Slovak languages, is not spoken by people of either countries. They do speak English, but -- from my personal experience -- majority of them speaks German a lot better. Which stands to reason - Germany and Austria are their neighbouring countries and generate a lot of tourists. Croatians? Not so much.

Besides, learning Croatian only because it's a Slavic language and therefore similar to Polish and Slovak languages will only hinder your communication efforts by generating a lot of false friends.
And Croat Person is trying to decide whether to speak Slovenian or Macedonian while having a seizure.
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Old 20.01.2015., 19:11   #5
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drtorokandras kaže: Pogledaj post
Well, I don't want to deny I'm Hungarian (I'm proud of it) and don't want to get false friends playing to be Croatian. I really find Croatia and croatian people likable and after deciding to learn a slavic language I would have been happy if Croatian could help me for example ordering food in a restaurant in Slovakia. I now understand that it won't work. (It's not easy for us, because here's no language which is similar to ours and that's why I couldn't ideate this similar-to-my-language-and-can-understand-some-words-of-it thing).
Ali hvala za pomoć. :-)
Croatian won't help you ordering food in Poland.
The names of the basic food like milk, potatoes, tomatoes and so on... are in the most cases very similar (proto-Slavic roots), but for cousin it is not the case... there was obviously split between Poles and Croats before our present cousine customs are made.
We have more similar cosine names with Hungarian and surprisingly with Romania than to Polish and Slovakian.


This is the most similar language to Hungarian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QddPWzD_alk
I asked my Hungarian friend and he didn't understund even a word
So, all the Slavic languages are more similar to each other than this language is similar to Hungarian.
Probably even Baltic languages are more similar to Croatian than Hungarian and Mansi.

And SLavic languages are more similar to each other than German and English.

We can understand Slovak and Czech more easily in the written form; because the similarity of the words are more recognizable, and we use very similar letters and the rules of writting are very similar.
But Poles have very different writing sistem, they have lot of letters we don't have and different rules of spelling

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drtorokandras kaže: Pogledaj post
Oops, what a shame on me :-)
Well we have completely different relationship with the Poles compared with the Slovaks (or with Croats). I had bad experience with it last time when I was in Slovakia when the waiter recognized I'm Hungarian. (Those f.cking politicians on both sides generate the tension between nations.) I thought you were writing about false frineds in this manner.
O.K., I'm not a linguist, but I think we don't have any "false firend", we have only real friends :-)

Jó éjszakát!

A Hungarian Without Any False Friend :-)
Same like Croats and Serbs

Which language did you speak?
Every language has specific pronunciation, so native speakers are usually easily recognizable when they speak some foreign language.
So you will have problems hiding it even if you speak Croatian in Slovakia.
Maybe in the USA nobody would recognize you are Hungarian, because they don't know Hungarians, but in Slovakia it is different case.
Like we recognize Slovenians, Italians, Germans or Turks when they speak English.


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drtorokandras kaže: Pogledaj post
Yes, I want to learn a slavic language just for fun and plans to choose Croatian because I like Croatia.
Thank you for sharing your experience, it's unique to read about communication between a german speaking person and a Slovak person in Corato-Slovakian :-)

Gute nacht!
there is no point of learn Croatian if you want to use it in Slovakia and Poland.
Like there is no point of learning Spanish if you want better communication in Philippines, just because you like Portugal or/and Portuguese people.

And I doubt about learning Slovak or Polish will help you to hide your Hungarian nationality.

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slafko kaže: Pogledaj post
Let me tell you a story about my false friend in the Polish language.

There's a very nasty and profane word in Croatian - kurva. It means whore. Very nasty, right? Now, imagine playing an online cooperative game and have someone yell (type in all caps) at you "KURWA!". Obviously, you're going to take offense because there's no other usage in your native tongue for that word. Your only options in that situation are either to let it slide and ignore the offender or yell something equally profane back at them. Which can happen in the heat of battle when adrenaline is high.

Polish, on the other hand, uses that word very casually and it's their equivalent of the word fuck. They use it in sitations when something goes wrong, e.g. stubbing your toe on a piece of furniture, stepping on a Lego or falling into molten lava. The latter is usually followed with stating the obvious -- "KURWA! I DIEDED LOL" and is a tell-tale sign you've ran into a Polish noob with a sense of humor and poor English skills. They usually have "PL" suffixes attached to their character names too.

So, there you have it -- false friend between Croatian and Polish which can lead to a trollfest and be extremely detrimental to the party's efforts in downing that pesky endboss.
Kurva/kurwa is not a false friend in Polish and Croatian. They are synonyms. Like in Croatian and Hungarian.
The meaning is whore in all there languages.
But Hungarians use this word more, in different contexts, and Poles even more
SO, the meaning is whore in polish.
Usually in the ENglish texts they translate the meaning of kurwa in wrong way. It is not "fuck". It can be translated in some contexts like fuck, or shitk, or what a fuck, or fuck it, or god dammit, or motherfucker, or yo,or just skip it, when Poles use kurwa in stead of comma in the sentence. Some Poles do it. .
But the basic meaning is still whore.

Smae like suka in Russian, Ukrainian and Hungarian.

SO, kurwa can be translated in Croatian like jebote, jebi ga, u p... m...., eh, ah, not just kurva .

The real false friend of Serbo-Croatian/Macedonian/Bulgarian/Polish/Hungarian/Slovenian kurva/kurwa/kurba is Italian curva, which is pronaunced complitly the same like in Croatan and Polish, but it means curvation .

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drtorokandras kaže: Pogledaj post
Azt a kurva!
You are my real (false) friend!!! :-)

Well, in Hungarian the word "kurva" means absolutely the same as in Croatian. The phrase I used above means something like "what the fuck", so it suggests some kind of surprise (e.g. when you have been shot in a game if it's unexpected).
Conclusion: I don't have to learn ANY slavic language I can swear quite good in Croatia and in Poland in my on language :-)
So fale friend between Polish and Croatian are not so common (like in Croatian and Slovenian for example) and they are not the problem.
The problem is that Croatian and Polish & Slovak have different grammar endings/changes of the word, different pronunciation and accents, so even the word are similar to some extent, it is hardly recognizable, even for native speakers.
And maybe the most important to you; you won't be able to hide that you are Hungarian to Slovaks even if you speak Croatian, like you can't hide it when you speak English or German.

And about swearing words in Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Serbia; we are very creative about that; there are numerous swearing words and even more combination you can even imagine. And we occasionally create some individually. Just don't try to translate it.
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Old 20.01.2015., 21:50   #6
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Ivan Grozny kaže: Pogledaj post
To start a sentence?
Of all the cases not described here, i would mention specific names of organisms written using a capital letter for the genus name (e.g. Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori) - the name I know so well, being a person suffering from gastric ulcer disease). The same rule applies to taxon names, if i got the term right.
OK, it is good to read the rules of writing capital letters of specific lenguage before one start to write scientific article.
The rules in Croatian, Slovenian, German, English, Italian and Polish are so different and it can make a big confusion in one's head.

But i still have one question, i read somewhere in internet that key words in scientific text should be written with first capital letter.
According to this link; it's not.
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Old 21.01.2015., 08:51   #7
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sunshinestar kaže: Pogledaj post
When are the capital letters used in scientific texts?
I have never heard of any special rules of grammar and spelling that apply to scientific texts but not to other 'genres'. All texts intended for official, formal consumption should follow the same rules.
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Old 21.01.2015., 14:22   #8
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OK, it is good to read the rules of writing capital letters of specific lenguage before one start to write scientific article.
The rules in Croatian, Slovenian, German, English, Italian and Polish are so different and it can make a big confusion in one's head.

But i still have one question, i read somewhere in internet that key words in scientific text should be written with first capital letter.
According to this link; it's not.
Now, they should not
As for more general rules of writing scientific papers, one may find a quite a few guides on the www. https://www.google.com/search?q=writ...entific+papers
PS: Please also note that there are MORE general rules than one would imagine
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Zadnje uređivanje Ivan Grozny : 21.01.2015. at 14:34.
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Old 23.01.2015., 12:01   #9
Always capitalise proper nouns and specific terms.


The advertisement "Svakodnevna pobuna" on this page takes up one fifth of the page width.


Any ideas how to get rid of it?
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Old 24.01.2015., 13:28   #10
What's going on? No help? Aaa?



My New Year's resolution was to kick the addiction to the internet. Obviously it didn't work.


More blogs, facebooks, forums, newspaper websites where you can comment on a current news posted by some journalists , rise everywhere on WWW like mushrooms after rain.

It's so hard not to be part of it.



But I really want to abstain.
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Old 25.01.2015., 10:55   #11
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Ivan Grozny kaže: Pogledaj post
To start a sentence?
Of all the cases not described here, i would mention specific names of organisms written using a capital letter for the genus name (e.g. Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori) - the name I know so well, being a person suffering from gastric ulcer disease). The same rule applies to taxon names, if i got the term right.
I can not resist to quote one example from your link

The Serbs and the Croats have become bitter enemies.
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Old 25.01.2015., 12:33   #12
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I can not resist to quote one example from your link

The Serbs and the Croats have become bitter enemies.
Names of nations should generally not be used with articles, should they? >Unless you want to single them out for some reason. If I'm not mistaken, this is better:
Serbs and Croats have become bitter enemies.
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Old 25.01.2015., 23:06   #13
Hello peeps again.

I need a little help. Can you edit this text?:

This petition is of great importance. There is a petition runned by a fan of PJ movies. He/she required to Tolkien Estate to let PJ adapt The Silmarillion. Let's first start with the facts before going into deep discussions. The Lord of The Rings movies were amazing. They were fantastic even though Jackson did some changes. He precisely shown to us how Middle-earth is supposed to be. Even though Tom Bombadil never showed up in the movie I can understand his absence. Tolkien himself never described who he was. He only described him by these following words: " He is". His character is for sure hard to interpretate, so Jackson didn't do much damage by not adding him. Second important change PJ did in the Lotr movies is giving Arwen more screentime. She saved Frodo by Nazguls instead of Glorfindel. Some say that this is huge Jackson's omission and some say it's because he needed more women included in his own interpretation. Speaking of Glorfindel he did huge mistake. Glorfindel was an Elf-lord of a house of princes, one of the mighty of the Firtsborn. After Lotr movies PJ decided to adapt the Hobbit. Everyone's first thought was another Middle-earth story on the screen. But soon after that PJ decided to split a tiny book into three movies. Ok, everyone knows that this decision was made because of money. But that wasn't enough for him and the producers. They decided to create a female character. That would be a great idea if they tried to stick to the Tolkien's lore. But no they didn't, they named her Tauriel and set her up in the Mirkwood. She is a Silvan elf with read hair...ok I will stop right here. Where does in his books Tolkien mentioned a Silvan elf with red hair? For someone who does adaptations of Tolkien's work PJ should know that there is only five redhead elves and Silvan elves are not one of them. But that would be still ok if they didn't made a love story between her and a dwarf. For God's sake or for Eru's light elves and dwarves can't interbreed. There is half-elves and half-orcs but no half-dwarves. Why is that some of so-called fans ask all the time? I say because J.R.R.Tolkien, that's why. These are just few changes, he did a lot of them in The Hobbit but if you watched it and you are a bookwarm as I am you'll know that. I'm appealing to all of you Tolkienists sing this petition and don't let PJ ruin Tolkien's masterpiece. To the Professor!
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Old 26.01.2015., 11:53   #14
TolkienGeek chunking the text would do a great deal for my headaches. No lurker will read it half way before fainting unconscious.



Greece goes communist. Syriza's radical left extremists will ruin the country.
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Old 26.01.2015., 15:56   #15
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Greece goes communist. Syriza's radical left extremists will ruin the country.
Ther corrupt right and center-right have already ruined it. The problem is that the lefties are, of course, unable to do anything about the ruin. They will just cement it.

As the old wag put it, "Nothing left on the right and nothing right on the left".
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Old 26.01.2015., 18:10   #16
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TolkienGeek chunking the text would do a great deal for my headaches. No lurker will read it half way before fainting unconscious.



Greece goes communist. Syriza's radical left extremists will ruin the country.
Sorry about that, i have received it like that.

This petition is of great importance.
There is a petition runned by a fan of PJ movies.
He/she required to Tolkien Estate to let PJ adapt The Silmarillion.
Let's first start with the facts before going into deep discussions.


The Lord of The Rings movies were amazing. They were fantastic even though Jackson did some changes. He precisely shown to us how Middle-earth is supposed to be. Even though Tom Bombadil never showed up in the movie I can understand his absence. Tolkien himself never described who he was. He only described him by these following words: " He is". His character is for sure hard to interpretate, so Jackson didn't do much damage by not adding him.

Second important change PJ did in the Lotr movies is giving Arwen more screentime. She saved Frodo by Nazguls instead of Glorfindel. Some say that this is huge Jackson's omission and some say it's because he needed more women included in his own interpretation. Speaking of Glorfindel he did huge mistake. Glorfindel was an Elf-lord of a house of princes, one of the mighty of the Firtsborn.

After Lotr movies PJ decided to adapt the Hobbit. Everyone's first thought was another Middle-earth story on the screen. But soon after that PJ decided to split a tiny book into three movies. Ok, everyone knows that this decision was made because of money. But that wasn't enough for him and the producers. They decided to create a female character. That would be a great idea if they tried to stick to the Tolkien's lore. But no they didn't, they named her Tauriel and set her up in the Mirkwood. She is a Silvan elf with read hair...ok I will stop right here. Where does in his books Tolkien mentioned a Silvan elf with red hair? For someone who does adaptations of Tolkien's work PJ should know that there is only five redhead elves and Silvan elves are not one of them. But that would be still ok if they didn't made a love story between her and a dwarf. For God's sake or for Eru's light elves and dwarves can't interbreed. There is half-elves and half-orcs but no half-dwarves. Why is that some of so-called fans ask all the time? I say because J.R.R.Tolkien, that's why.

These are just few changes, he did a lot of them in The Hobbit but if you watched it and you are a bookwarm as I am you'll know that. I'm appealing to all of you Tolkienists sing this petition and don't let PJ ruin Tolkien's masterpiece. To the Professor!
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Old 27.01.2015., 15:15   #17
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Emericzy kaže: Pogledaj post
Names of nations should generally not be used with articles, should they? >Unless you want to single them out for some reason. If I'm not mistaken, this is better:
Serbs and Croats have become bitter enemies.
Croats and Serbs have become bitter enemies.
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Old 27.01.2015., 15:17   #18
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Emericzy kaže: Pogledaj post
Ther corrupt right and center-right have already ruined it. The problem is that the lefties are, of course, unable to do anything about the ruin. They will just cement it.

As the old wag put it, "Nothing left on the right and nothing right on the left".
They joined the EU in 2001 under a socialist government and stuffed up the economy. The deficit was never below 3% GDP and Greece cheated their way into the EU.

They borrowed lots of money and splurged it on increasing wages up to 50%, generous welfare and early retirement. No one wanted to work and those who worked did not want to pay taxes, especially the rich businessmen with their tax evasion schemes.

People should know that they can not live beyond their means. Greece is such a failure.
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Old 28.01.2015., 13:47   #19
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(...)
They borrowed lots of money and splurged it on increasing wages up to 50%, generous welfare and early retirement. No one wanted to work and those who worked did not want to pay taxes, especially the rich businessmen with their tax evasion schemes.

People should know that they can not live beyond their means. Greece is such a failure.
You know, there is a proverb that goes something like, "...people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.". I think it suitable and quite aptly replies to your comments.
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Old 28.01.2015., 23:29   #20
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English will help him better than German, especially for young people.
And they don't like German language.
Even if they know it.
No, it won't.
It's not a question of liking but of being able to use it.


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sunshinestar kaže: Pogledaj post
And Croat Person is trying to decide whether to speak Slovenian or Macedonian while having a seizure.
You wish.
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